@shane, were you using hot'n tots on boards and all that jazz or just straight trolling them? My dad used to troll those guys way back in the day when the casting bite was 0 and I have a ton of them left from his box! I have never been sure how affective they would be with my setup (i am really not setup for dialed in trolling, just forward, neutral, forward, neutral, etc.). What depth do you think they were running, how far back, etc.?