thanks for the replys.i have been coming to lake erie for over 20 years and the fishing is awsome.but as far as the other boats not paying attention,it the latest and greatest technology,using their trolling motor on the front of the boat with their graph.i get it for not having enough people on board for a few minutes or trolling with a few boats but not in lots of boats.i hate pack fishing but when its the only clean water its frustrating.i usually find my own fish far away from the pac.