Fish Trends/ females vs jacks

[Firetiger]

Here is a post from another site that I made a week or so back! I am not posting it here to create controversy or to incite any arguments but only for informational purposes only! I ask that you check my math and resources and then answer 1 simple question.
If the cause of poor hatches and recruitment of YOY(Young Of Year)walleyes is a shortage of female walleyes and eggs why has there been no massive recruitment of walleyes from the last 7 spawns? Here is the post!!!
Titled:

"Astronomical numbers"

"Once the 2003 hatch became mature adults there were roughly 35,000,000 adult breeders in lake Erie! Now assuming that only half of those adults were females of breeding age that would be roughly 17,500,000 mature females. The average number of eggs laid by a mature female is roughly 250,000. Please read the last post in this thread in the provided link as it is my source for the average number of eggs laid per mature female."

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/...ic,1075.0.html

"So with 17,500,000 females laying an average of 250,000 eggs each that would be a total of 4,375,000,000,000. That is (four trillion three hundred seventy five billion) eggs laid. If only 1% hatched, that would be 43,750,000,000 fry and if only 1% of those fry lived to maturity that would be 437,500,000 (four hundred thirty seven million five hundred thousand) walleyes that would have survived into adulthood. So since those numbers have not or were not ever realized there has to be more involved than the few thousand females taken just before and during the spawn as you can see those few thousand fish would have a very minor roll in the total overall egg production.
Some more good reading based on 2003!"

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/...n.html#msg1644

"One more link!"

http://www.epa.gov/med/grosseile_sit...s/walleye.html

Where did you get all your numbers for walleye in the lake ? How are they determined ? By theories or calculations from trawling/ netting a area and plugging it into formulas to theorize how many they think there are? I'm just curious. Thanks

[wakina]

Where did you get all your numbers for walleye in the lake ? How are they determined ? By theories or calculations from trawling/ netting a area and plugging it into formulas to theorize how many they think there are? I'm just curious. Thanks

They use calculations from trawling/ netting and use that information to determine by using formulas to estimate current populations. I at this time can no longer access the web pages due to a failure of a flash drive that had most of my info stored. But I do have a couple of pictures that I copied to file on a different devise and will post them while I continue to search for the web pages they came from.

Here is a table that shows what the bag limit will be if the Ohio Quota drops below a certain level. This is already in effect and will happen automatically if any of these numbers are realized.


Here is the graph that shows the number of harvestable walleyes at least 15in long that I used to determine the numbers I used, and as you can see my numbers were on the conservative side. Please note that on almost all of the larger increases of population that the number of adult walleyes was very low at least 2 years prior to the increase. In other words the spawn that was responsible for the increase happened at least 2 years before the increase was noted on the graph, as it takes at least 2 years for a walleye to attain the length of 15 inches required for it to be included in the graph as harvestable size.
Attachment 1334

I will continue to look for the source of my information and will either post it here or send it to you by PM.

It seems the graph is located in the link that I had posted earlier and I have reposted below.
http://www.epa.gov/med/grosseile_sit...s/walleye.html



Please note the date of April 17, 2003 that John Hageman is referring to in the Quote from and provided in the attached link posted below;

John Hageman
Extension Agent
*
Posts: 179


Re: The 4-17 Blow ... (April 17, 2003)
( Reply #1 on: 11/10/05, 12:17 )
Reply with quote
According to some of the posts on walleye central, at least some of the females are spawned out. Speaking with Jeff Tyson of the Div. of Wildlife's research station on Lake Erie at Sandusky, he expects that the bigger fish have mostly spawned, and the smaller ones may be done soon too. But all is not necessarily lost from one day of wind, despite the intensity. Jeff cites a recent larval fish study (Ed Roseman,Michigan State Univ.)indicating that even when the eggs roll off the initial location on a reef where they were deposited, they could still remain viable as long as they didn't go all of the way into the mud where they would likely fungus over. A sustained wind of several days would have had a worse impact. Also, remember that more eggs doesn't necessarily mean more fish. At times less is better, because each fish has less intraspecific completion for food and may have better survival odds. So, all hope for a good spawn is not yet lost!

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/...n.html#msg1644

[Firetiger]

So ALL these numbers are just "estimates" ?? They could be millions and millions off. If you just net a area that has a high concentration of walleye normally, your numbers will be skewed, just my opinion.... I think those are numbers are grossly over inflated.

But think about this theory on a smaller level, because you have no proof that any of your numbers are remotely close to real world.

Ill base my theory on a smaller level with numbers that would be easy to understand the theory. If lake x has 1000 walleyes that are spawning females, and it also has 500 white perch and gobies that fight to eat those eggs. If I take out 500 of those spawning walleyes, there will be the same amount of predators fighting to eat smaller said amount of eggs, which in turn will be smaller chance of survival for said eggs. If you have 10,000,000 eggs vs 5,000,000 eggs , your odds are always better for a better hatch with 10,000,000..... All the others factors that weigh in like weather,current, and so on, you will have a better chance with twice the amount of eggs. All this really doesn't matter anyways, its just THEORIES with the numbers. We as sportsmen have to make the decision and do what we think is best in our eyes. I originally made the post to see what others thought not to insight panic. Ill sleep fine at night doing I what I believe in my own eyes what is best for the fishery . As far as eating larger fish, a 10-12 year old fish has been exposed to more contaminants than a say a younger 15" fish, so to me a its a no brainer. SO the moral is do what works best for you, and I will not make any more female walleye posts on this website........

[Eye Doctor]

SO the moral is do what works best for you, and I will not make any more female walleye posts on this website........

It seems that females always get you into trouble....Doesn't matter if it's women or walleye!!! LOL

[wakina]

So ALL these numbers are just "estimates" ?? They could be millions and millions off. If you just net a area that has a high concentration of walleye normally, your numbers will be skewed, just my opinion.... I think those are numbers are grossly over inflated.

But think about this theory on a smaller level, because you have no proof that any of your numbers are remotely close to real world.

Ill base my theory on a smaller level with numbers that would be easy to understand the theory. If lake x has 1000 walleyes that are spawning females, and it also has 500 white perch and gobies that fight to eat those eggs. If I take out 500 of those spawning walleyes, there will be the same amount of predators fighting to eat smaller said amount of eggs, which in turn will be smaller chance of survival for said eggs. If you have 10,000,000 eggs vs 5,000,000 eggs , your odds are always better for a better hatch with 10,000,000..... All the others factors that weigh in like weather,current, and so on, you will have a better chance with twice the amount of eggs. All this really doesn't matter anyways, its just THEORIES with the numbers. We as sportsmen have to make the decision and do what we think is best in our eyes. I originally made the post to see what others thought not to insight panic. Ill sleep fine at night doing I what I believe in my own eyes what is best for the fishery . As far as eating larger fish, a 10-12 year old fish has been exposed to more contaminants than a say a younger 15" fish, so to me a its a no brainer. SO the moral is do what works best for you, and I will not make any more female walleye posts on this website........

Who is panicked unless it is you! I am not panicked at all about the fishery for walleyes or your opinion either, fact is I respect your opinion as it shows to me that you have a great concern for our walleye population! Our opinions differ and I accept that and hope you do to! You asked me for information and I supplied it to you, so if you have a beef then direct it at the ODNR, it is their info that I passed along to you and whoever else may be interested and every one should use it as they please. It was also their efforts that was used to gather the data that was used to arrive at the estimates, they used the available scientifically gathered data at hand. They actually went out on the lake and performed research to make yours and mine fishing experience as good as possible. I accept their findings and will not get into suggesting that they have it all wrong, so I do not have to perform my own research but rely on the research that my license fees have help support, as well as the wages for those PHD's and lower degrees in fish management that those biologist have earned while attending the university of their choice.
I have said this before and I will say it again! I do not target large walleyes but instead target any walleye that would decide to eat what I am offering. I will also state that I will commit to my daily bag limit any legal walleye that I catch be it just legal or 30+ inches long. I have seen the best of the walleye fishing and to date the worse walleye fishing over the years fishing Lake Erie. In the 50's it was keep as many as you could catch but there were very few recreational boaters that would venture very far off shore at that time which limited the impact of sport fishing. Then the 60's arrived and with them the terrible pollution that wiped out almost all of the walleyes. We kept fishing and during a summer season we would be lucky to catch as many walleyes the whole season as you catch now in a couple of days. The early 70's was not much better but did improve as they grew into the mid to late 70's and the ODNR placed a 10 fish daily limit on walleyes and bought out the commercial walleye fishing fleet. Then as the recreational boaters started targeting walleyes and the number of boaters grew they imposed a 6 fish limit.
Due to weather conditions and lack of ice last year, as an example, their were far fewer walleyes caught than in previous years. But the survival of the hatched eggs was minimal and we ended up with a below average recruitment! Why?

[Bggeary]

So ALL these numbers are just "estimates" ?? They could be millions and millions off. If you just net a area that has a high concentration of walleye normally, your numbers will be skewed, just my opinion.... I think those are numbers are grossly over inflated.

But think about this theory on a smaller level, because you have no proof that any of your numbers are remotely close to real world.

Ill base my theory on a smaller level with numbers that would be easy to understand the theory. If lake x has 1000 walleyes that are spawning females, and it also has 500 white perch and gobies that fight to eat those eggs. If I take out 500 of those spawning walleyes, there will be the same amount of predators fighting to eat smaller said amount of eggs, which in turn will be smaller chance of survival for said eggs. If you have 10,000,000 eggs vs 5,000,000 eggs , your odds are always better for a better hatch with 10,000,000..... All the others factors that weigh in like weather,current, and so on, you will have a better chance with twice the amount of eggs. All this really doesn't matter anyways, its just THEORIES with the numbers. We as sportsmen have to make the decision and do what we think is best in our eyes. I originally made the post to see what others thought not to insight panic. Ill sleep fine at night doing I what I believe in my own eyes what is best for the fishery . As far as eating larger fish, a 10-12 year old fish has been exposed to more contaminants than a say a younger 15" fish, so to me a its a no brainer. SO the moral is do what works best for you, and I will not make any more female walleye posts on this website........

Hooray. hooray!

[KRAMHAYS]

Funny,,,,,,, i thought all fish were breeding fish???????whats the difference if it is in jan, feb, march, or trolling charters in july???? By the way,,,,, your killing breeding minnows to catch your fish......

[hot-n-tot501]

Oh my gosh people, let folks that pay their money for an Ohio fishing liscense fish how they want. Unless the ODNR changes the regs, theres nothin anybody can do. Me personally, ill keep any nice walleye i catch other than during the walleye run in the river. At that time, limits of jacks are relatively easy and theres no need for me to keep a spawning female. But, everybody can fish how they want and thats all there is to it. PERIOD So, with that said, let it go! Good luck fishin

[Huskymusky669]

The spawn success is 75% environmental ( temp , silt , oxygen , sun , wind , floods , waves , GOD stuff! ) that is why you can have about the same amount of breeder females from year to year and have some fantastic hatches or some duds!! It is really very simple. Much like our winter / summer. Last summer in Michigan ( mid July ) 6 nights with lows in the 40's , and this winter cold as Heck. 2 years ago and for the last decade all boo hoo a our global warming , and now they call it climate change because it is cold as heck for 4 months and that about covers everything HUH?? Plain and simple DNR will adjust bag limits as needed. We have never had such good management of our resources!!! And it will provide for years yo come , as long as we keep supporting it!!

[bocajemma]

So ALL these numbers are just "estimates" ?? They could be millions and millions off. If you just net a area that has a high concentration of walleye normally, your numbers will be skewed, just my opinion.... I think those are numbers are grossly over inflated.

But think about this theory on a smaller level, because you have no proof that any of your numbers are remotely close to real world.

Ill base my theory on a smaller level with numbers that would be easy to understand the theory. If lake x has 1000 walleyes that are spawning females, and it also has 500 white perch and gobies that fight to eat those eggs. If I take out 500 of those spawning walleyes, there will be the same amount of predators fighting to eat smaller said amount of eggs, which in turn will be smaller chance of survival for said eggs. If you have 10,000,000 eggs vs 5,000,000 eggs , your odds are always better for a better hatch with 10,000,000..... All the others factors that weigh in like weather,current, and so on, you will have a better chance with twice the amount of eggs. All this really doesn't matter anyways, its just THEORIES with the numbers. We as sportsmen have to make the decision and do what we think is best in our eyes. I originally made the post to see what others thought not to insight panic. Ill sleep fine at night doing I what I believe in my own eyes what is best for the fishery . As far as eating larger fish, a 10-12 year old fish has been exposed to more contaminants than a say a younger 15" fish, so to me a its a no brainer. SO the moral is do what works best for you, and I will not make any more female walleye posts on this website........

If it's just purely numbers of walleye, please explain how we didn't have banner hatch after banner hatch for the years following the mega hatch when the walleye population estimates were 70+ million walleye? The facts are that the walleye population that gave us the mega hatch in 2003 was a smaller walleye population than we have now.