young walleye

[Rmonaco]

Sorry guys didn't mean to ruffle feathers, but i do appreciate farmers and I'm not blaming them for the algae blooms, just stating a fact that something has to be done to prevent or decrease blooms. I encourage everyone to take a look at the link I have posted.
http://www.cleveland.com/science/ind...e_algae_b.html

[troy1976]

no feathers ruffled here. I am just trying to educate the non farm community. THe finger always gets pointed our way when it comes to run off. There is no doubt that farmers contribute to the problem. In the article you just posted though it states that millions of dollars in fertilizer end up in the rivers. I am not sure how accurate that number would be. The phosphate fertilizers applied today for the most part are deficient applied. What I mean is farmers apply phosphorus at rates less than they should to maintain yields. When I first started working 16 years ago, farmers broadcast applied phosphourus on every acre they farmed. Not the case today. Most fields i work with are variable rate applied when it comes to phosphourus, and most fields do not call for any at all. Row starter is used on corn, but most commonly only about 35-40 lbs per acre of phosphourus are applied to the entire crop.
Now if you want me to ruffle feathers...how many of you guys live in the burbs or city and put fertilizer on your yards or pay someone to do it once twice or more times a year? I won't go thru the numbers but lets just say that on a per acre basis, homeowners put WAY more fertilizer(especially phosphourus) ;on their yards than a farmer does on his fields. Now when you have weather events like we have had lately what stands in the way of the storm sewer and the lake? Not miles upon miles of farmground, filter strips, and creeks. Water coming from farm country is filtered a lot before it hits the maumee or detroit river. Because of the sheer volume of acres that drain to these two rivers though, farmers will never be able to completely not be to blame. As I said earlier management practices are in place, and we are all looking for new practices to employ, with the goal of reducing our portion of the problem. We all want to be as efficient as possible while still making decisions that make economic sense as well.
I apologize if anyone is upset, and I will get off the soapbox now. good luck to all fishing and be safe everyone

[imrsmk]

I appreciate what farmers do (my mom's family farmed), and I do think the Ag community is working very hard to reduce their contribution; however, please don't try to minimize or point fingers. As of 2012 nearly all residential lawn fertilizer no longer contains phosphorous. In addition water samples show high phosphorous levels in the rivers upriver from any large cities; although, outdated sewer systems undoubtedly do contribute to the phosphorous as well.

Again, I do think that the Ag community has worked really hard to educate and reduce phosphorous runoff. I also know that farming is a business and no business wants to waste money putting more inputs into it's product. I just want to make sure that the problem isn't blurred where nothing gets solved. I saw an article in an Ag publication today doing just that. They were pointing the finger at residential residents and large city sewers.

John

[troy1976]

thats funny i sell about 10 tons a year of 50 lb bags of residential fertilizer that is 15-15-15, 6-24-24, 16-8-8, 9-23-30. THe first number is nitrogen, the second is PHOSPHORUS, and the third is potassium. Go to wal mart and see what the analysis is on the bags of fertilizer. most of them contain phosphorus. Andersons fertilizer plant in Maumee bags thousands of tons of residential fertilizer a year and most of it contains phosphorus. Stop by their store and see for yourself.

Again I am not throwing stones. THe ag community definitely puts its share in the rivers, but come on...Every study is only as good as who is funding it. If the government is funding it, then it will point in one direction, if farmers fund it, it will point another direction, if the city funds it it will point in another direction still. It is almost impossible to get an unbiased opinion.

I can point you towards farmers that are very aware of their "footprints" and are very on the edge of technologies and practices that help reduce unwanted runoff. I can also point you to farmers that knowingly do things that are not good practice in relation to fertilizer runoff.

THis is my last comment on this issue, again please don't take it the wrong way, but also don't say things that are not true. There are two sides to every situation, and usually when something is wrong it takes more than one problem to cause major blooms such as we saw two years ago.

[LEfriend]

thats funny i sell about 10 tons a year of 50 lb bags of residential fertilizer that is 15-15-15, 6-24-24, 16-8-8, 9-23-30. THe first number is nitrogen, the second is PHOSPHORUS, and the third is potassium. Go to wal mart and see what the analysis is on the bags of fertilizer. most of them contain phosphorus. Andersons fertilizer plant in Maumee bags thousands of tons of residential fertilizer a year and most of it contains phosphorus. Stop by their store and see for yourself.

Again I am not throwing stones. THe ag community definitely puts its share in the rivers, but come on...Every study is only as good as who is funding it. If the government is funding it, then it will point in one direction, if farmers fund it, it will point another direction, if the city funds it it will point in another direction still. It is almost impossible to get an unbiased opinion.

I can point you towards farmers that are very aware of their "footprints" and are very on the edge of technologies and practices that help reduce unwanted runoff. I can also point you to farmers that knowingly do things that are not good practice in relation to fertilizer runoff.

THis is my last comment on this issue, again please don't take it the wrong way, but also don't say things that are not true. There are two sides to every situation, and usually when something is wrong it takes more than one problem to cause major blooms such as we saw two years ago.

Troy, you are right on many counts. Certainly the ag community is stepping up and you are 100% correct...there are many many farmers that are on the cutting edge doing the very best and looking for even better new practices and technology. And there are some others that knowingly do things that are not good practices. Same as in every profession or walk of life...mechanics, salesmen, you name the profession. So Ag has no corner on that. And at times many external factors and our economic system push people to do things they don't want to do if there was a better option.

But it is true that for every acre of urban or suburban land that drains into Western Erie, there is roughly 6 aces of ag land. Farmers are not losing much per acre, the challenge is there are so many acres into such a small shallow western end and most of those acres are ag compared to other uses. That's why the farm commodity groups recently put $1million of their own dollars out of their pockets into research to help solve the problem, through a partnership with the Federal Government and the University.

It is also true though that the phosphorus has come out of a majority of lawn fertilizers, including the custom lawn services. Scotts has the lions share of the lawn care market in Ohio, and they have removed it from theirs. Andersons actually has done likewise for their lawn blend, there is a whole pallet of their name brand at my local elevator, because I looked at it out of curiosity. It's phos free. And I bought phosphorus free fertilizer at Walmart about a month ago. Sure there is triple 15 blends out there...but it is getting harder to find and is now being marketed as garden fertilizer and that is intended use.

It is also true that cities are stepping up and spending billions on waste treatment plants over next several years. My own sewer bills have doubled because our small town separated our sewers.

I agree...bottom line is that it is up to all of us....farmers, homeowners, cities.... to do our own part instead of pointing our fingers at others.

I would disagree though on one thing....it is possible to find lots of unbiased studies. Most good research is subject to rigorous peer review by other scientists. And in August, State of Ohio will come out with it's second report of the Phos Study Task Force II with findings and recommendations. That has been a year long process and has involved many ag organizations, environmental groups, scientists and government officials meeting together. Study that when it is released and you will find a lot of what we know, and need to do, is becoming clearer. We just need the will for all of us to roll up our sleeves and go to work putting those things into practice.

Good fishing... always enjoy your reports!

[wakina]

Sorry I opened this can of worms with my poorly thought out and written response in reply #11 of this thread. I in no way wanted to make it sound like it was the Family Farms that were the culprits, but I still managed to do so just the same.

By farm runoff I was thinking about the Mega animal Farms located within the Maumee and Sandusky river drainages right here in Ohio that constantly ignore the rules when it comes to handling the animal waste and the dead bodies their operations generate. Most if not all are foreign owned and operated, those people and corporations could care less about our environment, both air quality and water quality. Their first concern is the almighty dollar at our expense, after all they just pack up and go home after destroying our air and water quality. Chicken/egg mega farms are some of the worst ones for leaving the dead chickens to rot in piles and the manure to accumulate without being properly treated, thus allowing the effluent those waste piles produce to run off into the local waterways and eventually finding its way into Lake Erie, a simple search will verify what I have just stated.

I therefore apologize to all of the Family Farmers out there who were offended by my reply. Be it known that I do stand by my assessment of the Mega Farms referred to in this reply.