My frozen shiners are alive when I put in bag, no water. Fully thawed I'll throw away. Have 3 bags in freezer now, sat had almost 2scoops leftover and alive. When I go out by myself I'll get one scoop, and take a bag with me. With the price of shiners it's worth it to me. When it's my son and me , we get 3dzn and if we run out we're done. But we also cut are shiners.