Fish Trends/ females vs jacks

Been fishing west of West Sister 1 mile or so. Been catching a mixed bag, but mostly females in 10+ lb range. They are very aggressive biters. Jacks mixed in here & there but ya know when it's a jack. Follow up, down, buggy whip, twitch, drop, lift, drop, lift, lower slow & twitch and after 2 minutes they "bug off". Now! On the inside. 15 degrees out of Magee. 3.23 miles. "Jack land". Could be done in 1 hour. 2-3 lb ave & a few 6-7's thrown in.
My take away is this. Cubed walleye in gallon freezer bags for fish fry's head to "Hogtown" west. Table fare for family? 3.23 mi @ 15 degrees will do ya right.
C Ya tomorrow & Saturday. Frabill Speed Shak XL with green & black Honda Rubicon. Set up on green Otter Sled II with 4 yellow w ratchet straps.
Good luck & good fishing.

Here's a hog spot! My gift
6.75 miles from Magee. WWSW of West Sister 1 mile or so!

41.44.08 N
83.08.15 W

Enjoy!

thanks for infor. just curouis, lures amd color.

Whats your thought on all the females you see laying on the ice and next to trailers when you get in at crane. I seen about 36 8-10lb females all laid out next to a trailer yesterday at crane. They were taking pictures. I wanted to throw up. Its everyones right to keep what they want within the regs, but I mean its just doesn't make any sense to me.....

MAKES ME SICK TO MY STOMACH.....Those are the same people who will be complaining in a few years when the numbers are down.

Little or no ice fishing on Erie in 5 years and you are sick about people catching a couple limits of pig females?? Go ***** at all the snaggers in the rivers and leave the true sportsmen alone. Do your homework! Hatch results have more to do with weather , current , temperatures and silt conditions than guys keeping some females. WOW?? What a bad vibe!

they are really tasty 10lb females ...... LMFAO

The old ladies . DNR has said over and over again that its better to keep the older fish instead of the 3-5 lb females which are prime for spawning .

You guys must be smarter then they are or clueless . My guess is the later .

Oh yeah , fished today with a 3 man limit . All fish were 27-30 inches again . You bet they will taste good for dinner .

Will be back out tomorrow as well and hope to do the same again .

Dale

love the post about killing the Jumbos at Simcoe . Whats the difference between keeping Jumbo perch or big walleye ?? Same difference , different body of water . Killing the big perch are fine just not for walleyes I take it ??

Dale

I do not target big walleyes, male or female! I target walleyes period, big or small. I also do not harbor any animosity toward those who do target big fish before, during or after the spawn.

With me if they are of legal length they go in the box, if by chance there are two fish hooked at the same time and only 1 is needed to fill my limit I will keep the larger of the 2 and release the smaller one, that is if I am fishing by myself.

This is an old argument, one that comes up every year at this time, or with no ice season, then at the start of the jig season. Did you know that a female walleye has only 2 seasons? They are either actively spawning(dropping their eggs) or they are pre spawn. It makes no difference if they just became mature or a 30+ inch adult they are in one stage or the other there is no in-between. Once that last egg is dropped a healthy female immediately starts to develop eggs for the next spawning and that my friend is pre-spawn. Just because a female is not visibly swollen with eggs does not mean there are no eggs present in her egg sack.

To those who saw the females laid out by the trailer at Crane Creek and then came on here and related their feelings in a post describing how it made them want to throw up. Here is a question for you. Did you voice your concern to those who were present and taking those pictures that you have related to in your post, I mean the ones who actually caught those fish? If not why not?

You did say that it is every ones right to keep what they want as long as they are within the regulations. If you honestly feel that way then your beef is not with the law abiding sportsmen nor is it with the other law abiding members of this forum who keep those legally caught big fish, so please quit trying to make them feel bad or guilty, but instead your beef is with the ODNR as they are the ones who set the regulations governing what can or cannot be kept. There are 3 types of fishermen and women on this site, those who will keep those big females and those who will not and those who keep no fish but catch and release only. The only way that you will be able to stop people who keep those fish is to petition the ODNR to make it illegal to include them in ones daily bag limit! You will never be able to change anyone's mind or behavior by posting those concerns on this or any other fishing site.

The culinary usefulness of a large sized fish versus a smaller sized fish of the same species would be the individual preferences of each person. Just as it would be from one species of fish to another. I have had just as many small walleyes taste skunky as I have 8lb or larger walleyes. It is what it is and they are what they are. Just as you would cut and cook a roast differently than you would cut and cook a steak, the same applies to the bigger fish versus the smaller fish it makes a world of difference in the taste of the fish big or small.

Well said wakina !

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Originally Posted by wakina

To those who saw the females laid out by the trailer at Crane Creek and then came on here and related their feelings in a post describing how it made them want to throw up. Here is a question for you. Did you voice your concern to those who were present and taking those pictures that you have related to in your post, I mean the ones who actually caught those fish? If not why not?

The culinary usefulness of a large sized fish versus a smaller sized fish of the same species would be the individual preferences of each person. Just as it would be from one species of fish to another. I have had just as many small walleyes taste skunky as I have 8lb or larger walleyes. It is what it is and they are what they are. Just as you would cut and cook a roast differently than you would cut and cook a steak, the same applies to the bigger fish versus the smaller fish it makes a world of difference in the taste of the fish big or small.

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No....I did not voice my concern because...AND ONLY BECAUSE...I wasn't there.

As for the culinary usefulness...I could never tell the difference when eating one versus the other...especially deep fried. That being said I'd eat cod loins or haddock all day long before walleye...Just my preference...Saltwater fish just taste better to me.

I didn't mean to rain on anyone's parade with my "sick to my stomach" comment...Just how it makes me feel. The limits are what they are and people are entitled to take what the law allows. I do believe, however, that Lake Erie is a fragile fishery and selective harvest methods will be way more beneficial for future fishermen than a "fill the box" mindset.

I was in the lot and seen all the females that group caught. To be honest I did not like it one bit. It made me angry. I have thrown back all the females I have caught this year.

Now with that being said, am I to understand that the fishery is not being harmed by keeping the females? So me returning all the females won't help Erie? Honest question.

I understand that they were within the law and I guess I am just looking for the "science" on keeping females.

So if keeping females is not hurting the fishery, does it just come down to a personal preference and ethics?

Just trying to understand and learn here guys.

Wakina right on track. Target the guys who set the regs, not the guys following them! If you take issue with what we can keep.

they have a reason for keeping them big females! ANSWER IS. because you aint the brightest if your out there. d. clark

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Originally Posted by Gettin Jiggy

Wakina right on track. Target the guys who set the regs, not the guys following them! If you take issue with what we can keep.

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Just because there is a law to do or not do something doesn't mean that you can or can't do what you think is right. Maybe I think different but, then again, I was never one to follow the rest of the lemmings off the cliff.

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Originally Posted by Eye Doctor

Just because there is a law to do or not do something doesn't mean that you can or can't do what you think is right. Maybe I think different but, then again, I was never one to follow the rest of the lemmings off the cliff.

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This is a battle that goes on every year. I'm not going to get wrapped up in the political googan attitude about it. Let's get that ice outta here and go fishing!

To each his own. if you think you have a right to get angry over someone else's catch then say something to them, not the guys on this site. If u ain't got balls to tell the guy with the females then best thing to do is mind your own business plain and simple

Here are a couple of males, so not all of them hogs are females. These were caught yesterday afternoon. We did limit out 2 man grandpa and grandson. Grandson just loves to ice fish. I think the rivers have more taken than the lake anyway. Its more inclosed. Just my 2 cents if that means anything. Thats all i have lol.

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Originally Posted by Gettin Jiggy

This is a battle that goes on every year. I'm not going to get wrapped up in the political googan attitude about it. Let's get that ice outta here and go fishing!

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Yep...I'm out too...To each their own...Hope I didn't get anyone's panties in a bunch...Let's go fishing...Be safe out there!!!

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Originally Posted by Lakeerieguy

The old ladies . DNR has said over and over again that its better to keep the older fish instead of the 3-5 lb females which are prime for spawning .

You guys must be smarter then they are or clueless . My guess is the later .

Oh yeah , fished today with a 3 man limit . All fish were 27-30 inches again . You bet they will taste good for dinner .

Will be back out tomorrow as well and hope to do the same again .

Dale

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did you read my whole post I said was their right to keep whatever ,I just asked what others thought , I just don't like it.....
I could give a **** what you like eat .....

Well said wakina!!

Here is my take on this.... with finally having good ice in how many years let the boys fish. We have one of the best walleye resources right here at home where ppl come from all over and spend their money here in our local towns.

Im not goin to lie I have had the same concerns for years about catching the hogs before they spawn .. will it or will it not hurt the hatch. but the 2003 hatch where we had good ice to fish on has proven it to be of no concern to me.

another point id like to make is ... in reality how many BIG females are actually caught through the ice compared to a whole fleet of charter captains in the spring that make their money trolling for HOG females in the spring.

I agree with wakina in the fact that if ppl are mad about honest fisherman catching a trophy walleye .. then they need to petition the ODNR. Rules are rules if you follow them then you shouldn't feel bad about catching a trophy fish in the best walleye lake in the US. Not to mention you never hear guys on here getting mad about the guys catching 8-10 lbers out of the rivers or Maumee bay.... they are the same fish that come from the lake.

At the end of the day ppl should just be happy for their fellow fisherman that have the opportunity to share a great resource that we all have...

Last season was my first spring walleye fishing experiences. I learned the following: I only make it up during the spawn 2-3 times, so I keep whatever I catch and don't feel guilty about it.

Also, a bit of research shows that female walleye spawn out over half-a-million eggs each, so while some may argue that you're losing 500k eggs for the potential spawn, I would argue it is mere fodder. Say that for every female caught, 9 go not caught (I may be way under or way over, but just for an example), that would be 4.5mil eggs still out there for the one that was caught.

These are not deer that we are talking about (limit on does). Does typically only carry 1-2 fawns, but sometimes carry 3.

I too get concerned about the future of Walleye fishing, since God-willing, I will have another 1/2 of a lifetime to fish for them. However, anything from my end on the health and numbers of the walleye population is mere speculation. I will let my annual dues (in form of purchasing a fishing license) pay those with the know-how to study it, do just that.

Here's to an early warm-up! :cool:

how about the netters that cross over the line all the time, and take more in one scoop than all the ice fisherman take in ten years, and we get nothing back from them, let the ice guys and gals be they are doing more for our future then the netters, in license fee alone.

Here is a post from another site that I made a week or so back! I am not posting it here to create controversy or to incite any arguments but only for informational purposes only! I ask that you check my math and resources and then answer 1 simple question.
If the cause of poor hatches and recruitment of YOY(Young Of Year)walleyes is a shortage of female walleyes and eggs why has there been no massive recruitment of walleyes from the last 7 spawns? Here is the post!!!
Titled:

"Astronomical numbers"

"Once the 2003 hatch became mature adults there were roughly 35,000,000 adult breeders in lake Erie! Now assuming that only half of those adults were females of breeding age that would be roughly 17,500,000 mature females. The average number of eggs laid by a mature female is roughly 250,000. Please read the last post in this thread in the provided link as it is my source for the average number of eggs laid per mature female."

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/...ic,1075.0.html

"So with 17,500,000 females laying an average of 250,000 eggs each that would be a total of 4,375,000,000,000. That is (four trillion three hundred seventy five billion) eggs laid. If only 1% hatched, that would be 43,750,000,000 fry and if only 1% of those fry lived to maturity that would be 437,500,000 (four hundred thirty seven million five hundred thousand) walleyes that would have survived into adulthood. So since those numbers have not or were not ever realized there has to be more involved than the few thousand females taken just before and during the spawn as you can see those few thousand fish would have a very minor roll in the total overall egg production.
Some more good reading based on 2003!"

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/...n.html#msg1644

"One more link!"

http://www.epa.gov/med/grosseile_sit...s/walleye.html

I just go out till I get my 4 fishing alone, and head to the. Dock.... Next day go get. , my. 4 more dockside .day after same thing if its on I won't be out more then 30 mins tops!

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Originally Posted by wakina

Here is a post from another site that I made a week or so back! I am not posting it here to create controversy or to incite any arguments but only for informational purposes only! I ask that you check my math and resources and then answer 1 simple question.
If the cause of poor hatches and recruitment of YOY(Young Of Year)walleyes is a shortage of female walleyes and eggs why has there been no massive recruitment of walleyes from the last 7 spawns? Here is the post!!!
Titled:

"Astronomical numbers"

"Once the 2003 hatch became mature adults there were roughly 35,000,000 adult breeders in lake Erie! Now assuming that only half of those adults were females of breeding age that would be roughly 17,500,000 mature females. The average number of eggs laid by a mature female is roughly 250,000. Please read the last post in this thread in the provided link as it is my source for the average number of eggs laid per mature female."

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/...ic,1075.0.html

"So with 17,500,000 females laying an average of 250,000 eggs each that would be a total of 4,375,000,000,000. That is (four trillion three hundred seventy five billion) eggs laid. If only 1% hatched, that would be 43,750,000,000 fry and if only 1% of those fry lived to maturity that would be 437,500,000 (four hundred thirty seven million five hundred thousand) walleyes that would have survived into adulthood. So since those numbers have not or were not ever realized there has to be more involved than the few thousand females taken just before and during the spawn as you can see those few thousand fish would have a very minor roll in the total overall egg production.
Some more good reading based on 2003!"

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/...n.html#msg1644

"One more link!"

http://www.epa.gov/med/grosseile_sit...s/walleye.html

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Where did you get all your numbers for walleye in the lake ? How are they determined ? By theories or calculations from trawling/ netting a area and plugging it into formulas to theorize how many they think there are? I'm just curious. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Firetiger

Where did you get all your numbers for walleye in the lake ? How are they determined ? By theories or calculations from trawling/ netting a area and plugging it into formulas to theorize how many they think there are? I'm just curious. Thanks

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They use calculations from trawling/ netting and use that information to determine by using formulas to estimate current populations. I at this time can no longer access the web pages due to a failure of a flash drive that had most of my info stored. But I do have a couple of pictures that I copied to file on a different devise and will post them while I continue to search for the web pages they came from.

Here is a table that shows what the bag limit will be if the Ohio Quota drops below a certain level. This is already in effect and will happen automatically if any of these numbers are realized.
Attachment 1333

Here is the graph that shows the number of harvestable walleyes at least 15in long that I used to determine the numbers I used, and as you can see my numbers were on the conservative side. Please note that on almost all of the larger increases of population that the number of adult walleyes was very low at least 2 years prior to the increase. In other words the spawn that was responsible for the increase happened at least 2 years before the increase was noted on the graph, as it takes at least 2 years for a walleye to attain the length of 15 inches required for it to be included in the graph as harvestable size.
Attachment 1334

I will continue to look for the source of my information and will either post it here or send it to you by PM.

It seems the graph is located in the link that I had posted earlier and I have reposted below.
http://www.epa.gov/med/grosseile_sit...s/walleye.html



Please note the date of April 17, 2003 that John Hageman is referring to in the Quote from and provided in the attached link posted below;

John Hageman
Extension Agent
*
Posts: 179


Re: The 4-17 Blow ... (April 17, 2003)
( Reply #1 on: 11/10/05, 12:17 )
Reply with quote
According to some of the posts on walleye central, at least some of the females are spawned out. Speaking with Jeff Tyson of the Div. of Wildlife's research station on Lake Erie at Sandusky, he expects that the bigger fish have mostly spawned, and the smaller ones may be done soon too. But all is not necessarily lost from one day of wind, despite the intensity. Jeff cites a recent larval fish study (Ed Roseman,Michigan State Univ.)indicating that even when the eggs roll off the initial location on a reef where they were deposited, they could still remain viable as long as they didn't go all of the way into the mud where they would likely fungus over. A sustained wind of several days would have had a worse impact. Also, remember that more eggs doesn't necessarily mean more fish. At times less is better, because each fish has less intraspecific completion for food and may have better survival odds. So, all hope for a good spawn is not yet lost!

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/...n.html#msg1644

So ALL these numbers are just "estimates" ?? They could be millions and millions off. If you just net a area that has a high concentration of walleye normally, your numbers will be skewed, just my opinion.... I think those are numbers are grossly over inflated.

But think about this theory on a smaller level, because you have no proof that any of your numbers are remotely close to real world.

Ill base my theory on a smaller level with numbers that would be easy to understand the theory. If lake x has 1000 walleyes that are spawning females, and it also has 500 white perch and gobies that fight to eat those eggs. If I take out 500 of those spawning walleyes, there will be the same amount of predators fighting to eat smaller said amount of eggs, which in turn will be smaller chance of survival for said eggs. If you have 10,000,000 eggs vs 5,000,000 eggs , your odds are always better for a better hatch with 10,000,000..... All the others factors that weigh in like weather,current, and so on, you will have a better chance with twice the amount of eggs. All this really doesn't matter anyways, its just THEORIES with the numbers. We as sportsmen have to make the decision and do what we think is best in our eyes. I originally made the post to see what others thought not to insight panic. Ill sleep fine at night doing I what I believe in my own eyes what is best for the fishery . As far as eating larger fish, a 10-12 year old fish has been exposed to more contaminants than a say a younger 15" fish, so to me a its a no brainer. SO the moral is do what works best for you, and I will not make any more female walleye posts on this website........

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Originally Posted by Firetiger

SO the moral is do what works best for you, and I will not make any more female walleye posts on this website........

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It seems that females always get you into trouble....Doesn't matter if it's women or walleye!!! LOL:D:D:D

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Originally Posted by Firetiger

So ALL these numbers are just "estimates" ?? They could be millions and millions off. If you just net a area that has a high concentration of walleye normally, your numbers will be skewed, just my opinion.... I think those are numbers are grossly over inflated.

But think about this theory on a smaller level, because you have no proof that any of your numbers are remotely close to real world.

Ill base my theory on a smaller level with numbers that would be easy to understand the theory. If lake x has 1000 walleyes that are spawning females, and it also has 500 white perch and gobies that fight to eat those eggs. If I take out 500 of those spawning walleyes, there will be the same amount of predators fighting to eat smaller said amount of eggs, which in turn will be smaller chance of survival for said eggs. If you have 10,000,000 eggs vs 5,000,000 eggs , your odds are always better for a better hatch with 10,000,000..... All the others factors that weigh in like weather,current, and so on, you will have a better chance with twice the amount of eggs. All this really doesn't matter anyways, its just THEORIES with the numbers. We as sportsmen have to make the decision and do what we think is best in our eyes. I originally made the post to see what others thought not to insight panic. Ill sleep fine at night doing I what I believe in my own eyes what is best for the fishery . As far as eating larger fish, a 10-12 year old fish has been exposed to more contaminants than a say a younger 15" fish, so to me a its a no brainer. SO the moral is do what works best for you, and I will not make any more female walleye posts on this website........

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Who is panicked unless it is you! I am not panicked at all about the fishery for walleyes or your opinion either, fact is I respect your opinion as it shows to me that you have a great concern for our walleye population! Our opinions differ and I accept that and hope you do to! You asked me for information and I supplied it to you, so if you have a beef then direct it at the ODNR, it is their info that I passed along to you and whoever else may be interested and every one should use it as they please. It was also their efforts that was used to gather the data that was used to arrive at the estimates, they used the available scientifically gathered data at hand. They actually went out on the lake and performed research to make yours and mine fishing experience as good as possible. I accept their findings and will not get into suggesting that they have it all wrong, so I do not have to perform my own research but rely on the research that my license fees have help support, as well as the wages for those PHD's and lower degrees in fish management that those biologist have earned while attending the university of their choice.
I have said this before and I will say it again! I do not target large walleyes but instead target any walleye that would decide to eat what I am offering. I will also state that I will commit to my daily bag limit any legal walleye that I catch be it just legal or 30+ inches long. I have seen the best of the walleye fishing and to date the worse walleye fishing over the years fishing Lake Erie. In the 50's it was keep as many as you could catch but there were very few recreational boaters that would venture very far off shore at that time which limited the impact of sport fishing. Then the 60's arrived and with them the terrible pollution that wiped out almost all of the walleyes. We kept fishing and during a summer season we would be lucky to catch as many walleyes the whole season as you catch now in a couple of days. The early 70's was not much better but did improve as they grew into the mid to late 70's and the ODNR placed a 10 fish daily limit on walleyes and bought out the commercial walleye fishing fleet. Then as the recreational boaters started targeting walleyes and the number of boaters grew they imposed a 6 fish limit.
Due to weather conditions and lack of ice last year, as an example, their were far fewer walleyes caught than in previous years. But the survival of the hatched eggs was minimal and we ended up with a below average recruitment! Why?

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Originally Posted by Firetiger

So ALL these numbers are just "estimates" ?? They could be millions and millions off. If you just net a area that has a high concentration of walleye normally, your numbers will be skewed, just my opinion.... I think those are numbers are grossly over inflated.

But think about this theory on a smaller level, because you have no proof that any of your numbers are remotely close to real world.

Ill base my theory on a smaller level with numbers that would be easy to understand the theory. If lake x has 1000 walleyes that are spawning females, and it also has 500 white perch and gobies that fight to eat those eggs. If I take out 500 of those spawning walleyes, there will be the same amount of predators fighting to eat smaller said amount of eggs, which in turn will be smaller chance of survival for said eggs. If you have 10,000,000 eggs vs 5,000,000 eggs , your odds are always better for a better hatch with 10,000,000..... All the others factors that weigh in like weather,current, and so on, you will have a better chance with twice the amount of eggs. All this really doesn't matter anyways, its just THEORIES with the numbers. We as sportsmen have to make the decision and do what we think is best in our eyes. I originally made the post to see what others thought not to insight panic. Ill sleep fine at night doing I what I believe in my own eyes what is best for the fishery . As far as eating larger fish, a 10-12 year old fish has been exposed to more contaminants than a say a younger 15" fish, so to me a its a no brainer. SO the moral is do what works best for you, and I will not make any more female walleye posts on this website........

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Hooray. hooray!

Funny,,,,,,, i thought all fish were breeding fish???????whats the difference if it is in jan, feb, march, or trolling charters in july???? By the way,,,,, your killing breeding minnows to catch your fish......

Oh my gosh people, let folks that pay their money for an Ohio fishing liscense fish how they want. Unless the ODNR changes the regs, theres nothin anybody can do. Me personally, ill keep any nice walleye i catch other than during the walleye run in the river. At that time, limits of jacks are relatively easy and theres no need for me to keep a spawning female. But, everybody can fish how they want and thats all there is to it. PERIOD So, with that said, let it go! :) Good luck fishin

The spawn success is 75% environmental ( temp , silt , oxygen , sun , wind , floods , waves , GOD stuff! ) that is why you can have about the same amount of breeder females from year to year and have some fantastic hatches or some duds!! It is really very simple. Much like our winter / summer. Last summer in Michigan ( mid July ) 6 nights with lows in the 40's , and this winter cold as Heck. 2 years ago and for the last decade all boo hoo a our global warming , and now they call it climate change because it is cold as heck for 4 months and that about covers everything HUH?? Plain and simple DNR will adjust bag limits as needed. We have never had such good management of our resources!!! And it will provide for years yo come , as long as we keep supporting it!!

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Originally Posted by Firetiger

So ALL these numbers are just "estimates" ?? They could be millions and millions off. If you just net a area that has a high concentration of walleye normally, your numbers will be skewed, just my opinion.... I think those are numbers are grossly over inflated.

But think about this theory on a smaller level, because you have no proof that any of your numbers are remotely close to real world.

Ill base my theory on a smaller level with numbers that would be easy to understand the theory. If lake x has 1000 walleyes that are spawning females, and it also has 500 white perch and gobies that fight to eat those eggs. If I take out 500 of those spawning walleyes, there will be the same amount of predators fighting to eat smaller said amount of eggs, which in turn will be smaller chance of survival for said eggs. If you have 10,000,000 eggs vs 5,000,000 eggs , your odds are always better for a better hatch with 10,000,000..... All the others factors that weigh in like weather,current, and so on, you will have a better chance with twice the amount of eggs. All this really doesn't matter anyways, its just THEORIES with the numbers. We as sportsmen have to make the decision and do what we think is best in our eyes. I originally made the post to see what others thought not to insight panic. Ill sleep fine at night doing I what I believe in my own eyes what is best for the fishery . As far as eating larger fish, a 10-12 year old fish has been exposed to more contaminants than a say a younger 15" fish, so to me a its a no brainer. SO the moral is do what works best for you, and I will not make any more female walleye posts on this website........

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If it's just purely numbers of walleye, please explain how we didn't have banner hatch after banner hatch for the years following the mega hatch when the walleye population estimates were 70+ million walleye? The facts are that the walleye population that gave us the mega hatch in 2003 was a smaller walleye population than we have now.