Don't be stupid

I like getting my boat checked and the sticker added asap every year so when I saw the watercraft officer checking boats at Catawba State Park I got excited and waved him over knowing I had everything in order so it should be a quick and easy check. Wrong! What is the first thing you should say when you are approached by any officer of the law when you are a CCW permit holder? Identify yourself as such immediately, not well into a friendly conversation. This act of stupidity could have landed me in jail and ruined a perfectly good day of fishing. Fortunately for me, Jason Beard, the state watercraft officer I am referring to, let me go with a stern warning, well deserved, and I apologized to him profusely and with this post, I would like to do so again. Gentlemen, know the law, act accordingly and don't be stupid like Dr. Ed.
Now on to my report. I trolled from "E" can north toward "D" can. I didn't limit out but the fish I caught came off DDRR CheapSunglasses and Pink Lemonade back 55' at 1.6 mph. It sure felt good to see walleye coming to the Holly Lucas again. I'm still looking for clean water. Any help?

Glad it worked out fine. DNR guys are cool if you show them proper respect. Clean Water? Best I heard was NE corner firing range

what is a ccw permit. we got 10 in bay Tuesday going east tomorrow will report then

CCW permit is a license to carry a concealed weapon, aka firearm, on your person.

Was checked last year by ODNR at Beef Creek. Told him immediately that I had ccw and was armed. He ask where it was and I told him. All went fine from there on which it should.

ALWAYS notify officers if your carrying. It's better to be straight up rather then have them find a gun on your person. I always have mine on me.

Were you carrying ? If not, it's none of his business that your a CCW licensee. If you were, it really shouldn't matter as you approached him, you weren't stopped for any reason. That's why it's called concealed. Mike

Yes please tell us you had your weapon otherwise no need to inform.

I was informed in my CCW class that I MUST inform any officer regardless if I was carrying or not.

Yes you must tell any uniformed official no matter if you are carrying or not. if they run your licence plate or drivers license they will know. i got pulled over without a gun in the vehicle and didnt say anything that was the wrong move. so weather you think you shouldnt have to tell them or not do yourself a favor and tell them first thing i guarantee it will make your run in with the law a better experience

I was told in my CCW class that the first words out of your mouth are that you have a CCP and if you are carrying or not ,if so the locatation of the weapon .

Alright guys, we've got to clear up some of this misinformation.

You have to inform/notify, IF AND ONLY IF YOU ARE ARMED. Period

There is a TON of misinformation out there, even instructors and police that are armed and insist that you must notify if you have your license, armed or not. That is INCORRECT. Hell, I've had that argument with a cop when I was unarmed. I did not notify, and he tried to write me a ticket for it until I referenced the Ohio Revised Code.

Here's my proof that in Ohio, you do not have to notify unless you are armed.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.12

Quote:

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(B) No person who has been issued a concealed handgun license shall do any of the following:
(1) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and is carrying a concealed handgun, fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the person after the person has been stopped that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the person then is carrying a concealed handgun;

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I'm not saying that its a bad idea to say "Hey I have my CHL, but I'm not armed". But, that isn't required by law!

Mr Ed, I'm glad you were fortunate. I hear way too many stories of people who fail to inform because they didn't know the law, or forgot that they were armed, which seems ridiculous to me.

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Originally Posted by freddie

Alright guys, we've got to clear up some of this misinformation.

You have to inform/notify, IF AND ONLY IF YOU ARE ARMED. Period

There is a TON of misinformation out there, even instructors and police that are armed and insist that you must notify if you have your license, armed or not. That is INCORRECT. Hell, I've had that argument with a cop when I was unarmed. I did not notify, and he tried to write me a ticket for it until I referenced the Ohio Revised Code.

Here's my proof that in Ohio, you do not have to notify unless you are armed.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.12


I'm not saying that its a bad idea to say "Hey I have my CHL, but I'm not armed". But, that isn't required by law!
Mr Ed, I'm glad you were fortunate. I hear way too many stories of people who fail to inform because they didn't know the law, or forgot that they were armed, which seems ridiculous to me.

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Freddie you beat me to it. So glad you posted this. Amazed at the number of instructers and LEO that don't know the law.

That's good information. It's amazing that an instructor can misinform on something like that.

You're right, but at the same time, there are TONS of cops that don't know the laws either.

Ultimately, its our responsibility as license holders to study the law and be knowledgeable.

My CCW class was taught by the sherrif of my county and we actually read all the laws concerning concealed carry. His advice was to inform whether carrying or not to save yourself some headaches. Even though the law states when you are carrying a firearm you must notify the officer of the law immediately it is what it doesn't say that will get you in trouble. The law does not specificially say you do not have to inform an officer if not carrying and that is where the problem occurs. We had a judge verify this and what he said was there are some gray areas that are not perfectly clear and as a safety procedure you should notify any officer immediately whether you are carrying or not to be on the right side of the law and not in the gray area. I do so as not to create any problems that I don't need.

Airshot

Freddie i wish i had that little piece of info when i got pulled over by the state trooper i was not carrying and didnt tell him i was a ccw holder and when he found out he was pissed and gave me a big run around even had me out the truck and threatend to arrest me.

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Originally Posted by eriecaster

Freddie i wish i had that little piece of info when i got pulled over by the state trooper i was not carrying and didnt tell him i was a ccw holder and when he found out he was pissed and gave me a big run around even had me out the truck and threatend to arrest me.

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Dang state troopers are always the worst. I would have told him to slap the cuffs on and then he would be the one in the end looking like the jack a$$ that he is.

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Originally Posted by airshot

(1)My CCW class was taught by the sherrif of my county and we actually read all the laws concerning concealed carry. His advice was to inform whether carrying or not to save yourself some headaches.

(2)Even though the law states when you are carrying a firearm you must notify the officer of the law immediately it is what it doesn't say that will get you in trouble. The law does not specificially say you do not have to inform an officer if not carrying and that is where the problem occurs. We had a judge verify this and what he said was there are some gray areas that are not perfectly clear and as a safety procedure you should notify any officer immediately whether you are carrying or not to be on the right side of the law and not in the gray area. I do so as not to create any problems that I don't need.

Airshot

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1. While I agree it isn't a bad idea to put the officer at ease by saying that you are not armed, it isn't the law. Every encounter is an opportunity for both sides to give and take a little, in order to reach an agreement. Maybe notifying him that you aren't armed, puts him or her at ease enough to just give you a warning instead of a ticket. Who knows. Then again, there are those who will abide by the law (inform only when armed) and nothing more. I can see it both ways.
2. That is wrong, and so is the judge. The Ohio Revised Code covers it all. There is no gray area in regards to notification. It is black and white. I just posted the ORC section, there is no other section on it. The ORC explicitly says what is illegal. If it is not in the ORC, then it is legal.

The only gray areas are in regards to self defense situations and how to handle them.

freddie....
I would like to see the part where it states that if you are not armed you do not have to tell the officer you have a ccw permit. If you read it it states that you must notify if you are armed. There is no specific statement that says
" you are not required to notify an officer that you are a ccw holder if not carrying a firearm" it does not say that and that is the gray area. I ma not
trying to start anything here, but one cannot assume the law is on there side because something is not clarified. The officer knows whether you have one the minute he runs a plate or runs your license, hell they even know when they run your fishing and hunting license. Your ccw is listed on all federal and state documentation. I will take my chances with the judge's opinion as he will be the one to make the decision.

Airshot

I want any LEO speaking to me to be as at ease at possible. By simply handing the CCW permit with the I.D. at the same time and declaring if I am carrying or not is easy enough - providing the request for the I.D. from the officer(s) is a legal request in the first place.

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Originally Posted by airshot

freddie....
I would like to see the part where it states that if you are not armed you do not have to tell the officer you have a ccw permit. If you read it it states that you must notify if you are armed. There is no specific statement that says
" you are not required to notify an officer that you are a ccw holder if not carrying a firearm" it does not say that and that is the gray area. I ma not
trying to start anything here, but one cannot assume the law is on there side because something is not clarified. The officer knows whether you have one the minute he runs a plate or runs your license, hell they even know when they run your fishing and hunting license. Your ccw is listed on all federal and state documentation. I will take my chances with the judge's opinion as he will be the one to make the decision.

Airshot

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Seriously are you kidding me?!?! It is very clearly written and stated in the law that was posted by freddie.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.12
Quote:
(B) No person who has been issued a concealed handgun license shall do any of the following:
(1) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and is carrying a concealed handgun, fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the person after the person has been stopped that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the person then is carrying a concealed handgun;

The part of the law that I highlighted in red is the proof. If it were the law that you had to notify even if you were NOT carrying a concealed weapon then that part would just be left out and it would read like this...

If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and is carrying a concealed handgun, fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the person after the person has been stopped that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license.

I run in to this conversation all the time. While I agree that it is probably just as easy to go ahead and inform either way, it is not the law to do so. Everyone that has their CCW should know the law clearly because you WILL be challenged sooner or later. I take my right to carry concealed very seriously and suggest that anyone else that has a CCW do the same. Know the law and know your rights.

There is a great forum that covers lots of topics like this. It is http://www.ohioccwforums.org/
I highly suggest that you guys check it out. It is packed with a bunch of topics such as the one we are discussing and has many members that have a wealth of knowledge on the CCW subject.

Be safe.

Has anyone ever heard of "intent of the law" ask a lawyer... this is what the judge said that came into our class. The intent of the law is that ccw holders inform officers of their permits. You will probably not go to jail for this but you could very well have a fight on your hands is the point the judge was trying to make. Anyone wants to test the court system in an attempt to prove himself correct, be my guest. The "intent" of the law is still there and is used almost daily in court cases. The law does not specifically state that you do not have to inform if not carrying so then it becomes intent.
And yes I do take my ccw license very seriously and constantly read and keep updated on any changes. And yes I know the laws "very well". I also know what the term 'intent of the law" means, just look at the number of persons serving time for failure to obey the "intent of the law" and you will see many do not know what that means.

Airshot

My last comment...
The intent of the law (as it is written) is so that the LEO knows ahead of time when he is dealing with someone that is armed...not someone that has a CCW.

I carry mace~!
Sabre Defense Spray.
You just never know when one of those walleye will attack you with those nasty big teeth, so I am prepared!:D

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Originally Posted by ReelTime

My last comment...
The intent of the law (as it is written) is so that the LEO knows ahead of time when he is dealing with someone that is armed...not someone that has a CCW.

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Exactly. The intent of the notification law is that an officer knows when you are armed.

For the final time, there is NO requirement to notify when unarmed. None at all. I have posted the Ohio Revised Code section explaining this, so why are we still arguing it? I've already cited Ohio law as my reference lol

If you still insist there is, Airshot, I challenge you to post that section of the ORC that details Failure to Notify while unarmed. Heck, even post a link to where somebody got ticketed for "intent of the law" as you say, for Failure to Notify while unarmed.

I think you're just a little confused on this, or that misinformed judge got you too. Check out OhioCCWForums.org , and ask the guys there. That is Ohio's absolute best firearms forum.

ANYWHO, back to fishin!!!

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Originally Posted by waterdog

I carry mace~!
Sabre Defense Spray.
You just never know when one of those walleye will attack you with those nasty big teeth, so I am prepared!:D

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LOL~This time of the year it is not their teeth that I am worried about, the boy eyes have a much nastier weapon at their disposal, and they use it with reckless abandon almost like they have no control over it.

When I originally posted this thread, I could never have imagined the can of worms I opened. I have enough bait to last me the whole season and then some. 4,200+ hits!!!
Unreal. Let's close the book on concealed carry and get back to fishing, or to be more accurate, catching those elusive Lake Erie walleye. And the choir sang "AMEN......."