Bert's Custom Tackle Bert's Custom Tackle Bert's Custom Tackle Bert's Custom Tackle
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    South Bend, In.
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    163

    Default

    It appears the 10" risers will put even more torque on those screws. If it were me, I'd be inclined to have the tubes welded to the base plate. Looks like they're anodized though, so that may be a problem. ebijack probably has the right solution. I would keep an eye on things for corrosion if you use non stainless steel though. Definately coat it with oil like he said.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Michigan
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    11

    Default Re: Bert's Custom Tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by ebijack View Post
    Did the screws fracture at the base of the tapered head? Typically that would be from loosing the clamp load ( not being tight, also a shear condition). Just so you know, S.S. is softer than most grade bolts and subject to fracturing. Typically S.S. is never hardened, not sure they even can. I've never been able to harden stainless. I know they would rust but if you replaced them with grade 8 screws, they would most likely never facture again. Paint the head of the screws after installing, put regular oil on the threads before installing will help stop that corrosion.
    Thanks for letting guys know to check theirs!
    After spending 20 years before I retired in the metallurgical test and manufacturing industry as a 8 State Field Engineer and Adjunct Professor who has taught Metallurgical Test Methods at 7 major Universities in the Midwest with a well known major employer who manufactures computer Rockwell and Tensile testing equipment, let me educate you guys on stainless steel bolt and nut fatigue. Stainless steel is an alloy of Nickel and Chrome. Chrome is used for surface brightness such as kitchen sinks and nickel is used for strength. Most stainless steel bolts and nuts approach Rockwell C 55-58 and that my fishing friends makes them VERY susceptible to breaking because they HARD NOT Soft. One has to be very careful from over torquing when using Nylock nuts to prevent Gauling /cold welding stainless nuts on stainless bolts because they will gall themselves together as you will snap them due to over torquing off if you try to remove them. I suggest a minimum 1/4-20 stainless bolts and nylock nuts with a SUPER light film of Super Lube synthetic grease with PTFE to be used on all base mounted rods holders and track systems using these nylock stainless nuts and bolts with backer stainless washers on rail Sisco and Traxtech as it will be more than sufficient unless you are pull out big tree stumps. Stainless Steel Nuts and bolts are HARD NOT SOFT metallurgically speaking as this makes them very suspectable to torque breaking and cold welding/galling to the screw. Oil will not do the job as compared to Super Lube Synthetic grease with PTFE/Teflon additives as I have used this synthetic grease for well over 15 years in the repairing, upgrading, and maintenance for 50 years of every fishing reel known to mankind. Class Dismissed.
    Last edited by fishreed; 09-30-2021 at 01:38 AM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Bert's Custom Tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by Jawbreaker View Post
    It appears the 10" risers will put even more torque on those screws. If it were me, I'd be inclined to have the tubes welded to the base plate. Looks like they're anodized though, so that may be a problem. ebijack probably has the right solution. I would keep an eye on things for corrosion if you use non stainless steel though. Definately coat it with oil like he said.
    Nope, Use a 1/4" thick aluminum or stainless steel backer plate to spread out the load if you are not using a rail system.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Michigan
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    11

    Default Re: Bert's Custom Tackle

    Why would anybody use a liquid thread locker such as Loctite when a stainless nylock nut is available?

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Fostoria, Ohio
    Posts
    1,805

    Default Re: Bert's Custom Tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by fishreed View Post
    Why would anybody use a liquid thread locker such as Loctite when a stainless nylock nut is available?
    Well professor, the reason that I used a thread locker instead of lock nuts would be the fact that the screws fasten directly into the threaded holes in the base of the upright riser tube the holder sets in. They go through the base plate from the bottom into counter sunk predrilled holes then are threaded into the predrilled threaded holes in the riser tube. Open the link that accompanied the old 2015 post you brought up again and take a look at the riser in question. There is no way to use the lock nuts you recommended. Class dismissed!!!!!

    One question does come to mind and that is are you here to help or to nitpick?
    Wakina
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  6. #16
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    Sep 2021
    Location
    Michigan
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    11

    Default Re: Bert's Custom Tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by wakina View Post
    Well professor, the reason that I used a thread locker instead of lock nuts would be the fact that the screws fasten directly into the threaded holes in the base of the upright riser tube the holder sets in. They go through the base plate from the bottom into counter sunk predrilled holes then are threaded into the predrilled threaded holes in the riser tube. Open the link that accompanied the old 2015 post you brought up again and take a look at the riser in question. There is no way to use the lock nuts you recommended. Class dismissed!!!!!

    One question does come to mind and that is are you here to help or to nitpick?
    I know exactly what you used. I'm here to educate you of what will not work. Expanding Nut certs like you used will not work in that application no matter how much thread locker you use because you need spread out the load with a backing plate with a minimum of 1/4 aluminum plate or maybe a rail mount system made by Cisco or Traxtech. I suggest you don't go into the mechanical engineering discipline. Guys like you are why warning labels are put on lawn mowers not to put your hands and feet near spinning blades. You can pick up a repeat class next semester when I'm available in your area.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Bert's Custom Tackle

    Wakina just because he is an engineer, doesn't mean he knows everything and was the best. I know carpenters that have been doing it for fifty years and I wouldn't hire them to build a dog house. Sounds like he is on here to throw his education and experience around. Not to help. I would just let it go

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Fostoria, Ohio
    Posts
    1,805

    Default Re: Bert's Custom Tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by Fish junkie View Post
    Wakina just because he is an engineer, doesn't mean he knows everything and was the best. I know carpenters that have been doing it for fifty years and I wouldn't hire them to build a dog house. Sounds like he is on here to throw his education and experience around. Not to help. I would just let it go
    Good advice!

    This dude has already showed his character is lacking in more ways than one. Seriously doubt the proclaimed engineering experience. Reading comprehension is not one of his strong suits either. He obviously does not realize that the problem is not with the track installation but with the holder riser to base plate assembly itself which slides into the track.
    Last edited by wakina; 10-02-2021 at 08:31 AM.
    Wakina
    23 foot Pro Line
    HDS 5X Sonar
    HDS 5M GPS
    Navonics chip, model #DMSD/649P+
    Platinum Plus Lake Erie and Lake St Clair Marine.
    Raymarine Dragonfly7 Sonar-Downvision-GPS combo with chirp technology.
    Navonics Hotmaps Premium East chip

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Darby Creek
    Posts
    900

    Default Re: Bert's Custom Tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by fishreed View Post
    I know exactly what you used. I'm here to educate you of what will not work. Expanding Nut certs like you used will not work in that application no matter how much thread locker you use because you need spread out the load with a backing plate with a minimum of 1/4 aluminum plate or maybe a rail mount system made by Cisco or Traxtech. I suggest you don't go into the mechanical engineering discipline. Guys like you are why warning labels are put on lawn mowers not to put your hands and feet near spinning blades. You can pick up a repeat class next semester when I'm available in your area.
    What an arrogant prick! Youíve made a total of 5 posts and most of those were arrogant or condescending! Guys like you are probably why I see so many bridge collapses. Iíve dealt with my share of arrogant engineers who never admit to their mistakes.

    I will stand by Wakina! Heís had hundreds of helpful posts and has been a member of this site for over a decade!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Bert's Custom Tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyezcrazy View Post
    What an arrogant prick! You’ve made a total of 5 posts and most of those were arrogant or condescending! Guys like you are probably why I see so many bridge collapses. I’ve dealt with my share of arrogant engineers who never admit to their mistakes.

    I will stand by Wakina! He’s had hundreds of helpful posts and has been a member of this site for over a decade!
    I just found this site and it doesn't make any difference how many posts I have made to state what won't work here in this application. Like I said, pour a gallon of Loctite on those nut certs and 1/4 20 screws and unless you spread out the load, the hard stainless bolt will fracture OR the expanded nut certs will pull out of the bases. END OF STORY. For your limited brain, Loctite only stops the nut from backing out Never ADDING ANY STRENGTH to bolt or screw. Did I hurt your feelings because I told you you were wrong? Get over it. Yes and I'm a prick because I dared set you straight on things out of your hourly pay-grade? I have seen guys like you get fired because they didn't heed my advice. Guys like you were beating on the door of Noah's Ark because they said he couldn't build a boat too! People like Wakina need to get their information from other sources rather than the men's bathroom wall at the expressway truck stop.
    Last edited by fishreed; 10-03-2021 at 07:34 AM.


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