Yellow Perch - what's going on?

Here's something to ponder, and the Lake researchers are looking at it. The Spiny Water Flea has been in Lake Erie since the mid 1980's. But large populations haven't been seen until recently. They are voracious feeders on other zooplankton, such as Daphnia (another "water flea" common in Lake Erie). Daphnia feed on algae. Spiny Water Fleas reproduce rapidly once the water temperature gets warm - late summer. Lots of fisherfolks have been finding the Spiny Water Fleas in Yellow Perch stomachs. Stomachs full of them. This hasn't been seen in the past. Maybe the larger algae blooms in recent years are at least partly accountable to the Spiny Water Flea. And the poor Yellow Perch fishing this year in August and so far in September.

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Originally Posted by West Basin

Here's something to ponder, and the Lake researchers are looking at it. The Spiny Water Flea has been in Lake Erie since the mid 1980's. But large populations haven't been seen until recently. They are voracious feeders on other zooplankton, such as Daphnia (another "water flea" common in Lake Erie). Daphnia feed on algae. Spiny Water Fleas reproduce rapidly once the water temperature gets warm - late summer. Lots of fisherfolks have been finding the Spiny Water Fleas in Yellow Perch stomachs. Stomachs full of them. This hasn't been seen in the past. Maybe the larger algae blooms in recent years are at least partly accountable to the Spiny Water Flea. And the poor Yellow Perch fishing this year in August and so far in September.

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so, is your hypothesis that the perch are too well-fed to bite? or that they've lost their appetites for shiners, for example? (the emeralds have also been largely absent this year)

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Originally Posted by West Basin

Here's something to ponder, and the Lake researchers are looking at it. The Spiny Water Flea has been in Lake Erie since the mid 1980's. But large populations haven't been seen until recently. They are voracious feeders on other zooplankton, such as Daphnia (another "water flea" common in Lake Erie). Daphnia feed on algae. Spiny Water Fleas reproduce rapidly once the water temperature gets warm - late summer. Lots of fisherfolks have been finding the Spiny Water Fleas in Yellow Perch stomachs. Stomachs full of them. This hasn't been seen in the past. Maybe the larger algae blooms in recent years are at least partly accountable to the Spiny Water Flea. And the poor Yellow Perch fishing this year in August and so far in September.

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I think the main reason is water temperature. currently, lake wide surface temperatures are around 70. in the 90’s, this time of year the surface temps were in the mid 60’s (most years). with those temperatures wee would catch big perch (10-12”) in 12’ of water just off bolles harbor.
last few years,worldwide, hottest temperatures on record. of course the idiot in office disagrees, to our detriment.

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Originally Posted by bobd47fish

I think the main reason is water temperature. currently, lake wide surface temperatures are around 70. in the 90’s, this time of year the surface temps were in the mid 60’s (most years). with those temperatures wee would catch big perch (10-12”) in 12’ of water just off bolles harbor.
last few years,worldwide, hottest temperatures on record. of course the idiot in office disagrees, to our detriment.

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The idiots are those that want us to become socialists. Sorry could not let that go as I realize this is no place for politics

so i heard a story that the dnr said that the spiny water flea is a very large hatch this year and the perch are full easy food but the water flea does not stay on the bottom they go the middle of the water and the perch are chasing them so they are not in schools on the bottom but are scattered through the water column thats why we catch one here or there but the fish are there and plenty of them what i would like to know is when do they hatch and how long do they hatch last year it was good fishing till the 2nd week of august around wards and intake area a can where we fish we would go out and pick at them it was like a light switch one day we got them the next day we only got 1 limit of 30 for 4 guys and we finally started to pick at them and getting limits but out a lot farther we traveled 15 miles from shore. but the netters are getting some be cause i bought a hundred pounds live weight. and so did my fishing buddys we have not gave up yet but ill have some fish in the freezer. went out monday got 6 perch came home and ordered fish

Yes,this has been the worst perch catching season in memory.Seams like the balance in Erie is out of whack.The perch catching has been terrible all over lake past 3yrs and now the western basin has poor perching also.The past two seasons in the western basin,guys had remarked about the good size perch they were catching and hardly any dinks.Well,those dinks were the next age class we needed to catch this year.There has also been hardly any emerald shiners to use for fishing.The number one preferred bait to catch walleye and for them to eat out in lake.Some guys are blaming commercial netting.But we have had netters for quite some time.Some are blaming all the walleye in the lake eating young perch and chasing perch to prevent them from schooling up.We had large walleye population in the 80s and still had plenty of perch to catch.But we did not have all the invasive species in Erie in the 80s,like we do now.Now the ODNR is telling us that the perch population is fine and the reason nobody can catch perch on rod and reel is due to perch eating the spiny flees in our lake.I can imagine the perch eating whatever is available,but having an unlimited amount of one food source so you are not hungry to eat goldie minnows or other bait is difficult reason to accept.If the perch numbers are in fact healthy,i would expect the commercial guys to catch the same amount perch as in past years.Will be interesting on how this plays out.I do think the emerald shiner population will rebound but not sure if that will affect the perch catching in the future.

Lake Erie walleye quotas up but ‘devastating’ drop for yellow perch | Windsor Star

Perch numbers are down, and remember, commercial boats don't need these fish to "bite". They will Take every LB of fish they are allowed to take. If the numbers are down, they just have to fish more. If allowed they will fish until there is nothing left. It has happened before, it will happen again.

The main point to remember here is Lake Erie is a dynamic system, like all environments. There is no “normal,” only short and long term trends.

The theory is the spiny water fleas are eating enough of the other algae-eating zooplankton to at least partially account for the increased late summer algae blooms. The huge/large population of the spiny water flea provides an easy and plentiful food source for Yellow Perch. As long as that food source is readily available, the perch will take advantage of it, almost exclusively. So yes, the system seems to be altered. One thing effects another and on down the line. All other factors also play a role; higher water levels, water temperatures and other water parameters, a high walleye population, etc.

Commercial fishing is highly regulated and monitored. There is little chance it is a significant factor in any of this.

The researches and monitors will continue to study this and figure out what’s going on. Meanwhile we fisherfolks will do what we often do – adapt.

Remember when zebra mussels were going to wreck everything and lead to the death of the great lakes. The main thing is not to panic and let this work out. if there's a major problem it'll eventually show it's self. I agree it's highly unlikely commercial nets are to blame. They are watched like a hawk. The spiny water fleas will go through a population explosion then die down to a norm or go away. It'll take a few years but it'll happen. That's how invasive species go.

No, you are good it needed to be said. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by West Basin

The main point to remember here is Lake Erie is a dynamic system, like all environments. There is no “normal,” only short and long term trends.

The theory is the spiny water fleas are eating enough of the other algae-eating zooplankton to at least partially account for the increased late summer algae blooms. The huge/large population of the spiny water flea provides an easy and plentiful food source for Yellow Perch. As long as that food source is readily available, the perch will take advantage of it, almost exclusively. So yes, the system seems to be altered. One thing effects another and on down the line. All other factors also play a role; higher water levels, water temperatures and other water parameters, a high walleye population, etc.

Commercial fishing is highly regulated and monitored. There is little chance it is a significant factor in any of this.

The researches and monitors will continue to study this and figure out what’s going on. Meanwhile we fisherfolks will do what we often do – adapt.

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IMO if you think commercial fishing has little impact on fish numbers, your paycheck must come from that industry. Sport fishing lake wide, and the limited commercial fishing on the US side or the lake has little impact on numbers. The Canadian commercial fleet is a different story. You are correct in the fact that there are many factors involved with fish numbers from year to year, but I think you're missing my point. Once Quotas are set, those fish will be caught. If in following years if recruitment is poor, or any other problem pops up that is damaging to the fishery, its to late those fish are gone.

What makes me curious is the OH dnr says perch numbers are up, but the Canadian fisheries people cut the Canadian quotas by 32%. The Canadians don't give anything up without hard facts.

Fyi: my buddy and I were out off Lorain last Friday and quickly pulled our limit of nice walleye using perch pattern spoons.

Any way we can use the spiny water flea as bait or use it to our advantage? I know they’re tiny, but maybe make a dough with them in it (think Berkeley power dough), or something like that?Sometimes gotta match the hatch and go with what nature gives you....

they will be gone if the water ever cools down

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Originally Posted by GRINGO LOCO

The idiots are those that want us to become socialists. Sorry could not let that go as I realize this is no place for politics

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Many on here receive social security. We already have socialist programs.

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Originally Posted by hammerhead

they will be gone if the water ever cools down

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Cooler water might not help. Ever fished for salmon. Colder water tends to hold more fleas. Might want to check and see what the preferred water temp is for swf's.

Preferred temp for the SWF is between 50 and 75.5 degrees. They can survive in 40 to 86 degree water.

but i bet their number go down some

Whenever I put a post on this site regarding the fisheries issues and management of Lake Erie, I accept that some people will either take my post with the wrong intent or they will respond with a comment that they read into my post. Replies / posts are certainly welcome. I try my best to be clear. None of us are perfect, so I expect some misinterpretation now and then, either my fault for not writing clearly or someone reading something in or out of my post.

Just to clear something up.

I never said commercial fishing has little impact on fish numbers. I said, and meant to say, that the current spiny water flea issue isn’t likely a result of current commercial fishing. The complicated process of evaluating and managing Lake Erie fish populations has provided a pretty good and accurate model over the years, and is always improving. Catch quotas are set with long term impacts figured in. That’s the point – to make sure populations can survive future poor hatches and other limiting factors.

One year ago, all I read was all the great catches of perch. One year later a different tune. This Spring and early Summer was a bit unusual and in my opininon has brought about some unusual patterns. I am expecting the bite to improve. They did not just disappear in one year.

thousands of these worthless birds dont help.

YouTube

I agree with West Basin. In my opinion, The problem is related to these algae blooms. . I believe It has decimated the minnow population. . In years past, I can remember schools of minnows out from shore, even in areas of high algae concentration. But this crap is toxic. Very rare to see minnows now. The perch have adapted to a new food source.

We have been having some sucess lately catching them . Got 55 of them friday near green can in catawba. Some jumbos but alot near the 8 inch size.

Thats the most good news I have heard in weeks!

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Head boats and six pack charter boats are a good source for info on catch rates. This "crash" in catch rates is not so sudden. Michigan needs to reduce the daily limit to 25 fish, as do the rest of the Lake Erie states. In 40 years of fishing all over Michigan waters of the great lakes I've seen perch fisheries "crash", and in every instance it's been for a number of different reasons. The one constant has been inaction when the fishery is stressed. If things get better creel limits can always be increased

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I know where those perch went.

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Originally Posted by hammerhead

thousands of these worthless birds dont help.

YouTube

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there needs to be a hunting of the evasive bird they are a feeding machine.....they should be controlled.....I hear nothing on this matter much.....

I agree with the bloom problem but the evasive birds are not helping neither as they are eating fingerlings by the droves

Well there is no doubt that all those 19-22 walleye will eat there fair share of small perch as always

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Originally Posted by ttinman23

No, you are good it needed to be said. Thanks.

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worst year ever for catching yellow perch.
lots of theories: spiny water fleas, algae, commercial fishing excess, water temperature.
i vote for high water temperatures. with the lake wide surface temps in the 70’s, the perch are not coming into the mi waters of the western basin as usual this time of year. my records show thta i catch big perch when water temps hit 67.
with the highest june, july, august temperatures world wide ever recorded, it must play some role.
what do you folks say?
thanks.
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Offline Tory Gabriel, Ohio Sea Grant
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Re: yellow perch
« Reply #1 on: 09/27/19, 13:00 »
Hi BobD,

Sorry to hear about the yellow perch woes. Interesting that you've kept detailed records, sounds like a cool potential data source.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be one great answer. There are a lot of yellow perch out there, so that's even more frustrating that they are hard to catch. They are growing fast too, according to a blurb in this article, which means they are eating a lot of something. Of the issues you mentioned, the least likely to have an effect is the commercial fishing. It is highly regulated and dependent upon a high enough population size, so it's highly unlikely to be effecting the catchability of yellow perch. The other issues could very well all being playing roles, and maybe even compounding each other.

We do know that they eat spiny water fleas, and they seem to be eating them more in the fall than in the past. ODNR data from past years shows a shift to a more forage fish dominated diet in the fall, but they seem to still be focused on the invasive water fleas and other invertebrates in recent years. Those invasive water fleas aren't schooled up near the bottom, so if the yellow perch are trained in on them their behavior is going to be different. There have been reports of folks having success using wax worms instead of minnows, and targeting suspended fish instead of sinking the bait to the bottom. You can read one such report here, though I've heard that from multiple anglers going back to last year.

We're not exactly sure how the harmful algal blooms effect the bigger perch. In the central basin the dying algae contributes to the hypoxic "dead zone" that is low in oxygen, and drives the yellow perch away. Depending on currents, there can be small, intermittent hypoxic areas in the western basin as well, though they don't hang around all season like in the central basin.

Your water temperature question is a good one. One of our big uncertainties with climate change in Lake Erie is how the cool water species like walleye, yellow perch, smallmouth bass, etc. will respond as temperatures continue to warm. That said, when looking at the Stone Lab data buoy it appears this years water temperatures are in line with last years so far at this date. Last year did not record consistently under 70* F until the end of September, and it's right at 70* F now. With the cool evenings in the forecast, you should be able to find out pretty quick here if your 67* holds true this year.

Hopefully it does and you'll be filling your cooler soon!
Lo

They have been in the western basin but just not biting IMHO, had to use a lot of lifting of the rod just to entice them. Caught some but the effort wasn't worth the time the few we did catch. The last couple years I had my best perch fishing in July in the western basin. Just saying.

One of the things I have watched over the years is water temperature.I usually get my info from the weather Bouy,since I look at that website so often.unfortunately,the Bouy has not posted water temps in past 2mo.Must be broken.What I have seen in regard to water temp at Bouy is it peaks at 77-78 degrees and starts going down the second week in Sept.This year the water temps peaked at usual temp but started down during last week August.So water temps are in the normal range this year.