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I see a lot of mention of Perfect 10's, RR, and DHJ on here and I know they are working well right now. What about other crank baits? I have a large selection of Storm Hot-n-tots and several other types too. Is there a season these smaller baits work or work better?
Different baits not only have different profiles, but the bait size can make your break your day. The minnow type baits typically work better in spring and fall and have a much different wobble so to speak, the other baits ( wider wobble) work better during the warmer water season. Typically.
Interesting question, as I have a bunch of flicker shads we use here (lake Winnebago in WI)… but I understand the minnow (stick) style baits are far better on Lake Michigan, and it sounds like the same for Erie. I was hoping to not have to re-load the inventory.
The flicker shads in 4 & 5 do work around the reefs when castingQuote:
Originally Posted by cycleguy
If 90% of the charters and regular weekend warrior boats are using the same bait, then 90% of the walleye will be caught on that bait.
When someone gets a "program" going with Bandits, and shares the program, and then 10 other guys all try it and limit out and announce it, then pretty soon everyone on the Lake is using Bandits. I don't happen to buy into the idea that if Bandits are hitting, and I am able to run a Hot-n-tot through the same water column and through the same school of fish, that they will turn their head away from me and hit the Bandit. The issue is that when someone says, Bandits 65 back @ 1.7 MPH, I have no idea how that converts to a Hot-n-tot. It is easier for me to simply run Bandits 65 back @ 1.7 MPH than to figure exactly what depth they are at, and then how to get my Hot-n-tots to be at the exact same depth.
Also, many times the "program" changes. Early this season the fish where on fire on Bandits 85' back in the morning, then they shut down... nothing hitting... then someone came across the trusty channel 79 and said they where hitting at 50-55 back on Bandits. We changed to 50-55' back, and took the last 8 fish we needed to finish in about 45 min.
My point is that when you are running the same lure as what the charters and guys catching fish are running then you can duplicate the program that you hear on the radio. Everyone in the area is able to share info and you benefit from it. When you run lures that no one else is doing, you are kinda on your own. Usually on any given weekend we will be talking on the radio and say something to the effect of, "We are hitting them good 60 back on Nascar Stinger on a 40 TruTrip."
People will acknowledge that it is working for them too... and pretty soon the radio has guys asking this, "How does that convert to a dipsy-diver?" or "How does that convert to a tadpole?"... or a 50 Jet, or an older 40 jet... or a Walker? (you get the point)
There will be a conversation about how to convert it, with 3 guys giving different opinions. 2 weeks ago someone said how to convert it, then another guy got on the radio and said, "I don't know what dive chart you are using, but my book says...." They where 8' different on opinion of how it converted.
I assume that by now you are getting the point. Sure! Lures matter... size, color, wobble, presentation... it all matters! But a DHJ12 vs a Reef Runner vs Bandit is not as important as being able to find a program that works, and then being able to duplicate what is working. You could be out there running Hot-n-tots at 20' next to a charter running Reef Runners at 15' and they will limit out and you catch nothing because you are 3' below the fish all day.
Cranks will work and produce fish, but you'll probably hurt yourself trying to figure out how to present them they way they want. Vs Buying 10-12 lures for $75-80 at the bait store in the morning that everyone else is using, and has a program for and can be productive when you hit the water, or shortly thereafter.
Matt, there you go again making too much sense. I feel the same way as you do. A couple of years back someone comes over the radio and says "Running copper harnesses 45 back on TT40s". I didn't have any copper, but I moved my gold and firetiger harnesses to 45' and pulled 8 fish in an hour after only managing 4 walleye and countless trash fish for the first 4 hours. It's not about the shape, color, action etc. as much as it is about getting a bait in front of the fish. Does all that matter? Sure, it can and often I feel like it does. But it doesn't matter what you're pulling if you can't put the bait in front of the fish.
To the OP and anyone else that's reading this with the same question, here's the dilemma: You're investing a lot of money to get to the lake, run the boat, licenses, hotels, meals, ice...Why would you NOT spend a few extra bucks to have the ability to duplicate the presentations that others are saying are working? You don't have to buy the custom painted baits for $12-15 apiece. I'm not saying you can't, and I can tell you that they do work, but like Matt said, if 90% of the baits in the water are the same color and type it stands to reason that they'll catch 90% of the fish.
Good luck and have fun. Don't feel like you MUST use all the baits that everyone here discusses, just know that when you see people saying that Perfect 10s at 30/30 are catching fish day after day after day, it's a lot easier to get a Perfect 10 to the same depth than it is to get a deep diver there when there's so many variables to consider.
I don't put much into what is on the radio, way to much BS. For me, I run baits that produce for me. I've sold a few hundred baits and colors that never produced for me. I guess that comes from the many years of fishing tourney's. I want to be the first to know what is working, not the last if that makes sense. Also once you get a few fish, you need to dial in what the fish want once you get those few. With all the factors that are involved with speed, depth and lastly color. You then also have the bait size and what triggers bites. For me, I will absolutely state bait size does matter on each day. Which also points to the shape of the bait. You can get any bait to what ever depth you want fairly easily. I've run tot's for a lot of years, and find they do not produce like they used to when the water was much dirtier before zebra's. On average, the minnow shape baits produce a whole lot better in the colder water times. Warmer temps they still produce. For me I won't buy any perfect 10's as they are similar to Smithwicks and I sold boxes of those as I never caught a fish on them, just like thundersticks. I am not saying they don't work, they do for some of my friends. They just never produced for me. So I won't waste my time anymore running them. But shape and size do matter. I've had a few years where the Rapala tail dancers deep divers were better than any other RR or husky for our catch rate. Haven't had a good day with them in over 3 yrs. But I still try them, as I know in the right conditions they will produce. I don't go out and only put out a spread of one lure type/size, I cover the water column with different baits. Then dial in from there. There are a lot of days where the size of DDHJ's greatly matters. Not the color.
But that is my experience.
Good thread guys, keep teaching.
Ohio waters, two trolling lines per person, correct? Yes, I looked at regs, just making sure I got it right. I'm used to three here in WI
Ebijack,
I agree with everything you said... except the part about the radio. While I don't enjoy even having it turned on, it is invaluable if you know who is talking. If Skipper9 or one of the Eyehunter Charters, or Spoonfeeder or Pooh Bear, BudMan, Sarah J, etc.... says something then it's worth listening to. I can't tell you the number of times that one of the great walleye fishermen on here has saved my day by talking on the radio... But I agree, there is a lot of junk talk on there too.
The other thing that I would point out is that you are absolutely correct... However, not everyone has the ability to go out and run 16 rods and have 4 different variations of 4 different baits & Lures running in different water columns at the same time. You can go out and run 32 presentation variations in an hour. Us guys that are solo with 2 rods at a time, and maybe 4 if we have a buddy on board don't have that luxury. Many guys don't have the setup to run 16 rods either. I don't know if you actually run 16 rods or not, but many guys do. Even if it's 10-12 rods then you can go out and get something dialed in. It is a LOT more difficult with 2 rods.
I also agree that shape and size matter. But I also can tell you that there are way too many times that we throw some strange lure on to see what happens and something that we would usually use as a Bass bait, and we catch just as many fish on it as the "Hot" lures we are running and sometimes more.
I also don't own a single P10, mainly because I don't think it matters. This year when everyone was catching on P10's, we went out a limited in 3 hours with 5 guys running RR. A lot of the people that had boxes full of RR went out and bought P10s. I also don't have any interest in running P10's because I don't like messing with the line as it comes in and unsnapping weights.
My point was not to say that if you drag a bare hook through the water, or simply a piece of Styrofoam then you will catch fish, no, not at all... My point was that for someone that is coming up for a weekend by themselves or a couple buddies that have 2-3 guys and can only fish for a few days, then it may be worth while to grab whatever anyone else is using so you can dial it in the first hour on the Lake and not have a 2 day learning curve.
When I am running the common lure that everyone else is doing, I can drive up to the Lake and get on the water at 9:00 am... Get on the radio and simply say, "Does anyone have a good lead length?" and I'll get several responses like, "60 Back" and I'm catching fish within the first hour I'm out there... Sure we run different depths too, and check different water columns (though we would NEVER run anymore than 2 rods a person!) the entire time we are fishing... As much as I love going out and figuring out my own program, and finding fish all on my own without any help or numbers... I love having the ability to go out and start catching right away and I don't really care that I got a program from someone else... I would assume that most people reading this forum for information on how and where to catch walleye are worried about being able to go home and say that they got to spend the first 2 days of a 3 day trip "dialing it in."
Does size, shape, color matter? Absolutely! Does it matter as much as a lot of guys think it does?? I don't think so.
-Matt
Thanks for all the great replies guys as always! This really helps someone like me who can only make it up a couple times a month. I'm coming up on Sunday and since I'm on limited time will stick with the P10's, RR and DHJ I pulled a couple weeks ago since I'll only have 4 rods out. I will experiment with the H-n-T at some point though.
Please don't let this stop the thread though. This is really great information and if anyone else has thoughts on running cranks please add on.
I fit that, one guy with two rods in a boat description well. Hard to mix it up a lot by the time you factor in location and such as well. I simply have a much better chance of getting something wrong, or at least not finding the correct formula through a day's time.
Obviously certain bait styles and such matter… but I do think having the right lure at the wrong depth or speed is still going to suck. I would rather fish the wrong lure correctly, than the right lure incorrectly. Knowing the correct part of it is part of the "challenge"
Location is first on my list…. Presentation is next. What I am presenting is third. Unfortunately without some help or luck, I can easily see it taking the first two days of an annual three day trip to figure it out. That is, if it doesn't change before the third day :(
My wife and I fish alone in our 18ft boat most of the time. But we do fish on friends/others boats when it arises. So in Ohio waters we are using 4 rods. And we cover the water column quite well. We always look for our own fish staying away from other boats. We both hate fishing in crowds. I don't think enough folks look for water color first. They head to where the boats are and do not try to figure things out they listen to the radio and just wonder what they are doing wrong if they are not catching. A large number of boats in one area will shut down a hot bite quick and you will have to work harder to get them to bite. To me, I won't set a line till I find the right water color unless there is none to be found. When I find the right color, I'll look for marks but I don't need any to set lines. We also troll slower than most and typically do quite well. It works for us.
If you can stand to listen to all the gibberish on the radio, more power to ya. I wouldn't put much into a line out number if it did not come from someone you know. I've fished with others where their rods were 135 feet of line, mine were 100 to get the exact same depth ( were in the same boat) as an example running jets. Brand of reel, line dia, full spool or not, braid/mono equal just too many variables that can make folks waste their time thinking they are doing the same as everyone else but they might be way off. Also depending on where others are fishing, the depth they are getting fish could quite well be totally different than where your fishing. I was a newbie myself at one time. And I wasted a lot of time listening to bad reports on the radio. There are no guarantees, but if you go out and try to figure it out at least you learn something that will help each and every time you go out again. Use the tools you have on your boat. Learn how to use the tools. Reuse waypoints! Don't try to learn how to run every bait at once. Learn one type bait, then move on to the next one. Find what works for you and you will catch more and bigger fish.
Everyone does things differently, I just try to supply info that works for me. And hope it helps someone.