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For some reason this year trolling with my Cannon downriggers sucks, I did change to a bigger boat, Tiara 31 Open from a Regal 2100, but not sure what I am doing wrong, other than being a PPF what the heck, any suggestions?
Yes I've tried worm harnesses, Bandits, stingers (my steady eddy chicken wing, nothing)
Help
without more info on where you're fishing and your speed water depth lead length off the balls how deep you're setting the riggers, it's hard to give you any info that would help you. when I troll Erie in the central basin during the summer months I have my best luck fishing in 72'+ water depth with my riggers set at 50' and 55' respectively. if one does better than the other then I will adjust them. I use around 25' to 30' leads with mostly bandits. the best ones for us have been sun spot, metallic blue crome, and perch. but if the bite is slow I will run a little deeper trying to get the fish on bottom to strike. we also might change the color of the bandits. but it has to be really slow before taking the sun spot off.
Sherman51,
Just curious. 72 foot depths in the Central Basin in the summer have a thermocline. I've scuba dived wrecks out in those depths in August and the bottom is COLD. The upper layer of the water column temperature is in the mid 70's but under that thermocline it's around 45-48 degrees, from what I can remember. There is a HUGE differance. That being said, I would doubt there are any walleye down on the bottom out there, plus the high probability of anoxic water (low oxygen). Have you ever taken a water thermometer out with you and checked the water temperatures every 5 feet, especially down past 30-40 feet? If you are catching walleye at a depth around 50-55 feet or so, I'm betting those fish are just above or at the thermocline.
If you've never taken water temperatures out there, you should. Finding that thermocline line, knowing what depth it is, will help you find the fish. Setting your baits just above it would probably put them in the fish zone. The water clarity also can change around the thermocline which is another factor in where the walleye, and thier prey, might be.
Well put, yes more details helps, I am out of East Harbor, the past two weekends I was east of kellys, (north of kellys in 40 ft last weekend) I tried 20, 30 and 40 foot water trolling speed was 2-2.5 mph, Used a perch, carrot top bandit. I was only using 10 foot or so leads and changed to 30 ft or more, balls 1-2 ft above where I was making fish. Changed up last weekend and In 40 ft of water had balls at 30-35 ft and 1 at 20 ft.
I'm thinking I am not going fast enough, but that can't be all of it.
Next time I am out I plan on going north of Huron
Thanks for the comments
just a reminder if your ball is one or two feet above fish there is pulldown if you are using bandits. If my lead is out 50 ft from ball the bandit will probably be down 10 to 12 ft deeper.
I have used 10' leads and still caught fish. but I do better with 25' to 30' leads. are you using shallow or deep diver bandits? you want the bait above the fish for best results. if the fish are being marked at 30' in 40' of water you want the lure at or better yet a few feet above the fish. if I was targeting fish at 30' I would want my lures at 25'. allowing for lure depth with a 30' lead with a deep diver I would set my riggers at about 18' to start and adjust if needed. and I would be trolling about 2.7 to 3.0 in warm water.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRD
If the only thing you have changed is your boat and you are using all of the same fishing methods that have produced catching walleye in the past, then it could be your new boat! Maybe it's giving off some kind of electronic charge that you can not detect!
Just an amateur's guess or opinion! I have read some articles before about downriggers and electricity!
I truly appreciate the comments, based on what everyone is saying, YouTube videos and such, it is the boat, sort of, but only because my other boat had trouble getting slower trolling speeds, this boat is easier to slow down and I have not paid attention to my speed as I should. My my main conclusions are that I am trolling to slow and I am trolling/presenting lures and such at the depth I mark fish not above them like I should.
Live and learn and may the fish chase and bite your lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRD
what i have learned is if you let the down rigger down to 30 ft your set back will be 15 ft always 1/2 of what you let the down rigger down works good for a starting point
you may be right but with a heavy weight or a dredge weight, I just don't believe you lose 50% of depth. I used 8# dredge weights on Erie down 50' and 55' and had minimal blowback. but I just bought 2 10# dredge weights to get even less blowback. I believe if I allowed for a diving crank of say 10' I would need to set my riggers at no more than 20'. at 20' or even 30', my riggers would be almost straight down. the deeper you run your riggers the more blowback you're going to get. if you lose 15' at 30' it would be a lot more at 50'. so if I'm fishing at 50' down my weight would only be down at the most 25' using your figures. when we're targeting fish near the bottom at 70' deep we catch fish with the riggers set at 50' and 55'. I figure I may be losing maybe 10' but the deep diving bandit will easily make up that 10 loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by centerpoint
I first started using riggers for salmon on lake Michigan in 1976 and used them for yrs there and when we moved to Erie in the late 80,s I brought the riggers with me. with the transducer, we could track the balls down to about 40' and we only lost a few feet between the rigger count and on our fish finder at that depth. but we never even came close to losing 50%. if we use the rigger counter on Erie and were catching fish then were doing something right.
but this is just my thinking on the matter. I would never dispute what you're saying, I just have a different perspective on depth lost.
just for fun I went to canon's blowback chart and checked 100' of line out with 8, 10, and 12, weights, and the depth shown for the 8 and 10 was 100' down. the 12 was just a couple of feet deeper. but that's at 2 mph. Another example they gave was at 4 mph and the depth was only 80' down. but this is a far cry from losing 15' down 30'. just go to cannondownriggers.com and check out the blowback on the charts for yourself then you will have a better understanding of blowback. so I figure with the 10# dredge weights at 55' with a deep diving bandit my lure should be close to 60' deep at 3 mph. works for me. I figure at 2 mph you are still right on and at 4 you lose 20' at 100' then at 3 mph you should only lose 10' at 100'. but then cut that in half at 50' you should only lose 5' at 3 mph. so at 55' the weight should be at 50' then with a 30' lead off the weight I figure I'm gaining another 10' which puts my crank at 60' with fish at approximately 65' which puts my bait just above the fish and anyone that knows about walleye known they mostly feed up but not always.
sorry for both lengthy posts., but I'm just trying to help the op as much as I can. and by going to cannon he doesn't have to depend on anything I say.
Hi PRD,
We are still between boats here (new one is being rigged next week hopefully), but up until a few weeks ago our downriggers have been our bread and butter accounting for most of our keepers in July and August. I am scheduled to go out and help tune some one else's riggers for them here shortly and I will post what we find.
Generally we work spoons on the riggers and put the Bandits etc. on boards. Here are our basics that have consistently produced.
We have been working the line from roughly North of the Huron dump to the weather buoy. Trolling near 3.0 MPH most days.
Suggestions: Use 8 or 10 # weights at these speeds. We use a fish Hawk to dial in exact bait speeds and depths but if you don't have one I would strongly recommend S turns to help you find the best speed. Remember speed changes if you change boat direction. Particularly if you go up or down seas.
We also oscillate our riggers until we dial in a depth range.
The small spoons were producing best but the larger ones should be coming on any time now, I just haven't been able to confirm this.
Also your choice of Chicken Wing is solid. Also try, Nascar, blue chrome and wonder bread, all have been strong producers this year depending on sun - chromes spoons with sun and copper with overcast.
I hope this helps, don't give up on those riggers!
Fishing Tiger is right - use a device like the Fish Hawk - Salmon Fishing: Determine Fishing Speed and Water Temperature with Fish Hawk Electronics - and you will know almost exactly how deep your lures are running. Using a device like this is the only way to really know how deep your lures are running. If you are going to fish this way a lot, then take the time to learn how deep various lures you are using are actually running.
Fishing Tiger - how well does the Fish Hawk device work? I purchased one back in the summer but unfortunately I haven't been able to try it out yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by West Basin
yes that works great but if you are on a bugget and set your graph up correct on side image your cannon ball will show up as a black line it works well for me
marking a lot of fish helps to locate them but I've also had great luck when not marking a lot. but enough to keep me fishing. if you are marking fish then you have to dial in speed and depth to set your riggers. eyes feed best when going up a little to get the bait. with spoons and cranks, I've had better luck running as close to 2.8 as possible. for harnesses, I have done better at 1.6 on days. but most of the time I run a little faster at 1.8 to 2.0 when trolling the summer months.
as for depth with cranks, it's more of a guessing game. you want the lure at or just above the fish. you have to guess what depth the crank gets plus the depth of the rigger. if you're below the fish you may catch a few but you may not catch anything. I like to err on the shallow side and then drop the weights a little at a time until I find the sweet spot. but more times than not I'm usually good on depth when I start. shallow divers will dive much less than deep divers with much guesswork. in water less than 40' I don't allow for any blowback and allow for the dive of the lure. if I mark fish at 30' I set my rigger about 22; to start. this should put a shallow diver just above the fish.
West Basin,
We have had zero negative issues with our Blue Tooth Fish Hawk. We get a full season out of one set of batteries (4 AA).
The best part is it integrates with our Solix and Optimas. I haven't figured out how to get it to control the Ultera yet.
I can't imagine trolling without it!
We now know depth, speed, and temp at our baits. It is amazing how far off the GPS speed can be. We use the temp feature allot in the early Spring and late Fall, can be very different than surface temp, and helps find the active from inactive fish on the graph.
When my FishHawk was working with an 8 lb ball at 35 ft on the rigger FH said it was about a foot higher, think I was doing 2.5 at most
Out soon to try north of Huron