Trolling advice, still new

New to trolling--Catawba Area. I have trolling rods with counters and last year experimented with dipsys and harnesses. Aside from getting my trolling bag caught in the propelar it went OK. I NEVER see anyone mention dipsys anymore. Without using boards, what would be an easy next step...or alternative. I see everyone mentioning "bandits". Do they dive all by themselves by design? Look like a giant rapala. Or do I need a diver or weight or some sort? Seems like it would be hard to tell how deep they are without a chart. Too many acronyms on this forum for me to figure out anything else for now. I would probably go by Rickards on my way out and buy some bandits as they seem pretty straightforward.

Thanks,

Mike

Bandits dive to approximately 22' on their own, most of the fish being caught on them is 45' to 80' of line out, a chart for them is a good thing, when marking fish you want to fish just above them, precision trolling app.online 1.99 per lure type. Also , weight charts there to. To get any lure past it's maximum depth you will have to add weight unless it has a small diving bill, in that case you can use jets, jets are not recommended for larger billed baits like bandits,because the bill effects the dive curve of the jet. They pull down on the back the jet.hope this helps some,

So basically go by the bait shop ask for a typical bandit (suggestions?) and troll it back 60-80 ft with no other equipment?

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Originally Posted by eriedeerie

So basically go by the bait shop ask for a typical bandit (suggestions?) and troll it back 60-80 ft with no other equipment?

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inline planer boards.....humble bee is hot color

I have big board's to get them out to the sides of my boat, but yes , 45'= 12'down, 50= 13, 60=15, 70=16 ,80=17, 100=19, 125=20, 150'=21' 195'=22'down. All cranks have a dive curve bandits just have a large bill to achieve greater depth. The thing to do is to run them close to the fish you are marking, but not below them.most people use boards but they can be ran out the back, I did well on humble bee also,gold black back, blue chrome, fruit dots, black and chrome, I think another one called popsicle, there are more,the chromes seem to be catching them the past few days, blue chrome

I was having trouble getting started and read the book "Trolling Big Water Walleyes" by Chip Gross. It's on Amazon as a kindle book. You can download a free kindle reader for a pc or iPad. It covers the basics and lays the foundation to be able to understand the jargon used when members here post. It covers the basic tackle and techniques used on Lake Erie.

Mike,

Dipsy divers are still used... even by a lot of charters, they just use them a bit different than what you would as a primary trolling weight.
The reason that most of us do not use them exclusively is because you can only really run about 6 rods max. and that is if you are really good and know what you are doing. 2 out each side and 2 straight out the back.

With big boards you can run 8-10 rods out each side. A lot of charters will run a dipsy straight down off the side. Dipsy's dive straight down enough to run them along side the boat and still reel in the other rods. Many times I run a Dipsy or two right on the bottom and forget about it all day and see if it picks anything up.

Bandits to not require any additional diver or weight to be able to place it wherever you want in the water column.

-Matt

Keep in mind that the bandits that most everyone is referring to are the Bandit walleye deep divers.

Good post karloutdoors, I forgot to add that!

There you go eiredearie ,read post from Dr.Ed , catching them out the back of the boat,on boards, jets,weight etc.

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Originally Posted by Frank

I have big board's to get them out to the sides of my boat, but yes , 45'= 12'down, 50= 13, 60=15, 70=16 ,80=17, 100=19, 125=20, 150'=21' 195'=22'down. All cranks have a dive curve bandits just have a large bill to achieve greater depth. The thing to do is to run them close to the fish you are marking, but not below them.most people use boards but they can be ran out the back, I did well on humble bee also,gold black back, blue chrome, fruit dots, black and chrome, I think another one called popsicle, there are more,the chromes seem to be catching them the past few days, blue chrome

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Frank,

I have a question in regards to the Bandits and those numbers you posted. I use the Precision Trolling app and have been running the Bandits, and RR800's. I noticed the only dive chart for the Bandits is for 10#XT mono which are the numbers you have listed above. However, there is quite a difference in the dive curve if you compare 10#XT mono with Braid at 2 mph on a line counter reel according to Precision Trolling. For instance with a RR-800 it takes 80 foot of mono to get to 20 ft. But Precision says that you can achieve 20 ft of depth with only 56 ft of line out when running Braid with linecounter reel at 2.0

So I'm wondering if those numbers you posted are accurate in terms of trolling with linecounter reels running braid. I've been using the dive charts for the RR-800 when trolling Bandits. A local charter captain told me they were the same dive curve. Not saying he's right and your wrong or anything - I'm really just trying to figure this out. I would just like to catch more fish, and it seems like there is a big difference in the numbers of the RR-800's and the Bandits, as well as the numbers Precision reports for linecounter reels versus #10 XT.

Look forward to your response, and hopefully this will help out myself and others on this issue.

A lot of folks put too much into other folks line out numbers. It is only a guide, which helps you know if someone is in the upper column, middle or near the bottom.
Perfect example: 2 fisherman in the same boat. Each using their own rods/reels pulling Jet 40's. One fellows jet tag bottom in 40 fow at 105 ft braided line out, the other 135 ft of another brand of braid ( same brand/model reels)to tag bottom. This was running 4 rods/2 each.
The amount of line backing, line type/size and amount of main line type/size all changes the calibration equation/line out numbers. Some folks calibrate their reels, some only to 100 ft. Me, I don't care as long as I start with all my reels spooled exactly the same. I know they are all very close, till someone looses a lot of line :o
Once I know at what water column area/level the fish prefer the bait, I can start working on giving them plenty of it
If the bait's profile, bill length and angle are real close to each other. They should/will dive very close to the same depth. Given all the other variables.
Just more stuff/experience that has changed the way I think about fishin compared to when I was starting out.

Ebijack, I get all that. But what Im saying is there is big difference in the numbers for mono versus braid according to The Precision Trolling guide. Im not talking like 5 or 10 ft, its more like 30 or 40. Thats a huge difference. To me, that could be the difference between catching or not catching. As Frank well pointed out, you dont wanna run your lures underneath the active fish. Above is good, but below could make for a disapointing day. Im not trying to nit pick, again I just want us all to become better fisherman. In my opinion, dialing in those depths to target the active fish is where its at.

There doesnt seem to be the discrepancy with TT's, Jets, and other crank baits because the Precision guide offers the numbers for both. But the Bandits, only the mono dive curve is given. And if they run like the Reef Runners do, again our numbers would be off like 30 to 40 feet.

Hey jiga-bite ,I have The pro edition, my book says nothing about braid,but the tests where done with 10/4 fireline, which I checked into,it,actually has a smaller dia. Than braids the same pound test.fire line and braids sink whereas mono floats.I use 12lb.xt and I lose 2' in depth tolling bandits 60' back by what my chart says, I know this from trolling over shallower water,than what is listed, so braid is going to allow your lures deeper.but I do not see any lures that exceed 5' of deference,braid allows you to achieve the same depth with less line out, it's a stronger line with less stretch,so better hookups,less broken lines,which is ok with longer rods,I prefer mono for its stretch properties, but i only use 7' rods. What I see about mono compared to brad was for trip z divers on the package it compares 10 lb.mono to 30# braid, but braid is in a sense like leadcore because it sinks, I choose mono because most of my charts are done with mono, I went a little bigger,but I have a conversion chart in my book to give me the extra line I need to let out to get it the zone, most lures dive quickly to close their intended maximum,but those last few feet required 30,40 ,80' let out for just inches of depth, they say lures will dive infinitely if you could keep letting enough line out, but that's why jets an weights are used to avoid that issue, ok I say that if you use braid the shorter leeds that are used to troll bandit say 60 back you are probably 2' deeper than 10lb mono, if the fish are picky this could make you or break you. I try to keep my lures running within 5' of the depth most of the fish are hangin out, above them.I read that walleyes don't see down well an feed up. Hope this helps. Speed doesnt effect the curve of cranks, as much as using weights which are speed dependent. I watched a gentleman trolling on YouTube using 4oz.weights in 15' of water trolling cranks, at 1.5 he would have been doing alot of donating to the bottom but he was running 3.0 , ebijack is right about other people's line out, it's a starting point because that person could be using 20# mono ,which would be a bigger difference than 10# or braid .for example letting enough line out to get 36' down with 10# you only get 30' with 20# . 6' is alot . Reef runner's have a steeper dive curve than bandits, and also achieve a greater depth by 6' . 60' back on a bandit with 10# mono gets15' with a RR 60' back would get you 18' foot .the further out the bigger the difference. A RR will run 22' with 98' of line out, where it takes 195' for a bandit to reach that same depth. I've thrown allot of cranks over the years,and you can get lures of the same brand that will dive a little deeper than the others,or even catch more fish, strange but true!! I would try to get the right charts for the lures you are trolling an learn to adjust to your line size, everything I listed is based on 10# and all perfect world scenario,

Great info! I guess the point of confusion for me comes from looking at the Precision dive chart for RR's. If you compare the depths for LC 2.0 verses 10# XT, its literally about 30 ft of line difference to acheive the same depth running depth of 20ft down. Now as your desired depth increases, the difference between the mono and LC 2.0 (according to Precision) exponentially increases.

So I guess Im confused how there could be that much difference for RR's but not Bandits.

Well I would say lure design,internal weight, I have lures that dive 8' for instance I have other lures that dive the same depth but have a much larger Bill to get it done, buoyancy, bill angle. Action trying to be achieved

Take 1 hour (shouldn't take that long) and find where your set up runs. Example, go out to 30fow, let out a bandit till you tag bottom. Check the line out to the PT guide. Stop in 40 fow, do the same. I believe you will be surprised to find how your set works compared to the PT book info. Try to do this going the same direction as the shore line as to maintain the same depth and also to not be against/with one of the many currents out in the lake as that difference alone is quite a few feet in actual diving depth.
I've gotten lazy over the years and do not want to let out 180ft of line just to an inline board multiple times. I use weights. Less line out, less affected by currents, less fish lost by those not as experienced in bringing in fish. And I can find bottom very quickly in order to cover the water column. I can speed up and raise the lures or stall the boat and the lures dive. Just another way to do it.
Before PT book, finding bottom first was the way to figure out where to put lures starting the day out until you had the experience to know/remember where to set lures.

Jiga-bite
I searched through my book, the closest lure to the dive curve of a bandit and should get real close, is the Rapala deep taildancer ttd-9 , it has the fireline/ braid numbers in the book. Here are the mono numbers 45=13' ,50= almost 14', 60=15 ,72' =16', 80=17 , 100= 18.5 , 125= 20 ,150=21,178=22' compare those to the bandit numbers, here are the braid numbers for that same lure 20=10.5 ,30=12.5, 40=14.5 ,50=16.5, 60=18 ,70=19 ,80=20, 90=21, 100=21.5 ,125=23' ,150=24.5 these would be the numbers I would use trolling bandits with braid because the dive curves using mono with both lures are very close.Once you get out past 40' the RR continues on a steeper path ,this is a rr with braid 50=18, 60=20 ,80=22, 100=25 , with short leads they are pretty close.

I was talking this issue over with anothet fellow troller at the campground, and we figured it out. The LC on the Precision Trolling app stands for leadcore. Thats what was throwing me off. Hence the dive curve is much sharper for leadcore. They dont list any numbers for Bandits with leadcore.

The bigger problem is Ive been using the LC numbers all season thus far. Which would make my lures much shallower than what I was aiming for. Probably could have caught more fish this year.

Sorry for the confusion. Im still very new to this and still figuring things out.

This works for me. I paint black zebra strips on the side of Chartreuse/Pearl Bandits and the walleye love them 80' straight off the back and side of my boat at 1.7 to 1.9 mph. I'll see you tomorrow on Ch. 79.

I did good on humble bee,and fruit dots, so I been painting black heads on everything an adding green hologram, lol! Might just try trolling off the sides save putting boards out!

Don't read to much into the # test line the line is unless you compare the diameters, braid to mono or Fireline to mono. Power Pro is smaller in diameter than the Berkley fire line. Here is a comparison , the info is taken from the two manufacturers respective web sites. Berkley Fire line 10# .008 inch/.20mm comparable to 4# Trilene XL. Power Pro 10# .006 inch/.15 mm comparable to 2# mono. Most of the Fireline products are a larger diameter than the Braid from the other manufacturers. The reason is that Fireline is a fused line and braid line is well, braided. They are actually two different types of line in the way they are manufactured. Braided line is pretty much ranked like this Braid #test/mono #test with equal diameters. 30/8, 40/10, 50/14.

Wakina is right what I was thinking and what I wrote are two different things .the diameter is important,